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VCs are scared when they should be greedy

blog.aaronkharris.com

81–90 of 255 posts

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#81
post #67

> In contrast with the scenario in 2000, most of today’s tech companies are real businesses. How many of today's startups are just servicing each other with VC money? This isn't meant to be flippant - I'm genuinely curious (and while I bet it's a lot, I am skeptical it is overwhelming). I mean if we really look at some of the business models for these companies, they're clearly unsustainable. Uber is a prime example…

> How many of today's startups are just servicing each other with VC money? IMHO this is mostly the a phenomenon of the SAAS/platform space. Those practices don’t really apply to more traditional businesses (including high tech ones). But you made me think of something else: this phenomenon was definitely booming in the 2000 crash, when net-related hardware companies were underwriting their own sales, which ended qui…

Isn't this what YC does essentially? YC backed SaaS companies buy each others products, write favorable case studies and use that to convince other enterprises to buy in, and to IPO quickly they raise lot of money to have the market share that commands the multi billion valuations with insane revenue multiples?

Seems like this model is beginning to fail, most YC backed IPOs are now trading in deep red. ex) coinbase

edit: lurkervizzle I can't respond to you since im throttled but this is what I wrote in response to add on to what you wrote in the other comment

this is far more serious than I thought I seemingly just made the connection that YC backed SaaS (or any other accelerator schemes) were essentially just writing cheques to each other and playing whack a mole: You direct your cohort members to send cheques to one SaaS, raise series B & C, push for IPO after making splashes on media outlets (also owned and controlled by stakeholders), which in turn generates more fervor from retail investors eager to get in on the "next" Facebook.

Then you would naturally use these beacons to essentially send more cheques, this time across many tiny bets that they can cycle through one after the other. Some make it to IPO, many don't so they get "acquired".

The more I look at the YC business model and silicon valley in general is that very small group of people are actually in it to build sustainable businesses, since the Uber secondary market successes of VCs that successfully dumped their shares on Masayoshi, the SaaS have become the new "social media opex", where losing $2 to make $1 is preferred over slower growing but consistent net profit generating ones.

By next year I anticipate ton of pain and anger. I took a look at some TC figures and they are roughly 30/70 mix of cash and RSUs. Many of those people are also in debt through real estate using HELOCs too.

What I think we are headed for is something unprecedented because there are 3 major bubbles imploding: crypto, real estate, dot com

Even more crazy is that we had the exact setup going into the new millenia: e-gold, real estate, dot com but the difference back then was that monetary supply was nowhere near as low as they have been in the past 3 years (take a look at the M2 supply/velocity chart).

https://www.pennmutualam.com/market-insights-news/blogs/char...

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#82

> In contrast with the scenario in 2000, most of today’s tech companies are real businesses. How many of today's startups are just servicing each other with VC money? This isn't meant to be flippant - I'm genuinely curious (and while I bet it's a lot, I am skeptical it is overwhelming). I mean if we really look at some of the business models for these companies, they're clearly unsustainable. Uber is a prime example…

I was there in 2000, and we all thought those tech companies were real businesses! Most of today’s tech companies don't really look all that much different.

Not only that, but it wasn't even the largest issue.

People point at pimentoloaf.com or whatever and laugh. But when those companies went under, they took away real dollars from "real" B2B companies. And then when those companies went under, "real" companies who depended on them went under. And so on.

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#83
post #5

> In contrast with the scenario in 2000, most of today’s tech companies are real businesses. How many of today's startups are just servicing each other with VC money? This isn't meant to be flippant - I'm genuinely curious (and while I bet it's a lot, I am skeptical it is overwhelming). I mean if we really look at some of the business models for these companies, they're clearly unsustainable. Uber is a prime example…

Uber's a VC success story because the VCs managed to realize their profits before it can collapse when it went IPO.

They were lucky to find a whale like Masayoshi to dump their shares but seems the equivalent of bragging about how you got rich in the early phases of a ponzi scheme with the losers holding bags.

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#84
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've been betting against btc from the beginning, however i truely believe there's something interesting in this field, that may end up getting some real applications sometimes. Now what's still unknown is whether the funds that invested heavily on crypto in 2020s will have enough leftovers once this crisis is over to be a player when the crypto 2.0 era is coming.

> i've been betting against btc from the beginning Not literally, I assume? Or you’ve got a tiny position and have been (relative to the size if your position) haemorrhaging money for ~13 years? Or successfully rode some down waves? (I’m super jelly if you did the latter)

of course not, i would be broke :))

I do have a bet with a friend regarding btc price going under 1k i made in 2019 but it's just for fun..

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#85
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was there in 2000, and we all thought those tech companies were real businesses! Most of today’s tech companies don't really look all that much different.

I read this line and wondered what really has changed in the past 20 years? "In 2000, the Nasdaq superheated due to the large number of companies that skyrocketed into the public markets fueled by fanciful metrics disengaged from revenue." Interest rates have been held around zero since almost the dot com crash and certainly since 2008. No wonder VCs were given gobs of cash to try and eek out a better market return.…

it's also interesting to see the impact of cheap capital on software development trends. for instance to reproduce the same SEO server-rendered site we had pre-2008, we have increase in complexity and costs.

Applications and websites that should be more than fine to be rendered on MVC frameworks are now sending several megabytes of javascript down the wire, as a result our devices have more memories, more computing power, thereby consuming more energy than ever before contributing to the growing global warming crisis that we are only beginning to witness now.

Coupled with lobbying for not regulating personal data in databases connected to the internet thereby allowing a select few giants to essentially act both as cartels to monopolize the arbitrage of the data of everyone on earth. The labor market are also controlled as a result of this monopoly, it feels like the best version of state sanctioned businesses: self-sufficient on its own while gathering data on everyone as the price of privacy is artifically suppressed.

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#86

(Context: I'm a VC) Some great points in the post, but I also see a few additional dynamics at play: 1) The last 10 years have been great for VCs and startups, but now VCs are thinking about how to make their funds last longer. Two reasons for this: first, time diversification matters. If you think markets might go down even more, you don't want to deploy the rest of your fund quickly, you want to spread it out over…

On (4), it looks like the median seed valuation is still hovering around $25M based on AngelList statistics: https://stack.angellist.com/valuations

Part of the difficulty in parsing public versus private company valuations is due to the time constant: It takes a while for private companies to get desperate, whereas public companies have a real-time bead on investor sentiment.

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#87
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy, this is an evergreen narrative on HN, but I don't really think it's true. The total all-in cost of a Prius (depreciation, maintenance, gasoline, etc...) is about 30 cents per mile. Uber drivers make about $1-$2 per mile which is a pretty big margin. Uber has been around for over 10 years now. Sure, not everyone is an accountant, but if Uber drained every driver's wallet, they'd have noticed by now. Interesting t…

How many uber drivers are in Priuses? I haven't ridden in a single one... How many people do you personally know that make their living as an Uber driver? I don't mean pensioners making beer money, or people doing it as a side job, here. I know one. He's been doing it for a year and half, or so. He doesn't own his car. he has to lease it on a weekly basis, and he's paying through the nose for the privilege. He's doin…

PSA: Data on these kinds of questions is available. Here's the data for Chicago on Uber/Lyft vehicle type: https://data.cityofchicago.org/d/bc6b-sq4u/visualization

It will vary by year and city, but generally speaking Toyotas tend to dominate ride share with Camry usually #1, then Prius, Corolla, and RAV4. However, the long tail is very long and you're about as likely to get a ride in a less cost effective vehicle.

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#88
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many of today's startups are just servicing each other with VC money? IMHO this is mostly the a phenomenon of the SAAS/platform space. Those practices don’t really apply to more traditional businesses (including high tech ones). But you made me think of something else: this phenomenon was definitely booming in the 2000 crash, when net-related hardware companies were underwriting their own sales, which ended qui…

Isn't this what YC does essentially? YC backed SaaS companies buy each others products, write favorable case studies and use that to convince other enterprises to buy in, and to IPO quickly they raise lot of money to have the market share that commands the multi billion valuations with insane revenue multiples? Seems like this model is beginning to fail, most YC backed IPOs are now trading in deep red. ex) coinbase e…

[deleted]

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#89
"In contrast with the scenario in 2000, most of today’s tech companies are real businesses."

I disagree that many startups have viable ideas that will generate black numbers and organic growth.

Bold founders have sold startup ideas which are not sustainable.

Ie investment capital have prefered bold founders that could give vision of high future returns wework for example.

A small number of startups will become awesome but the majority wont.

Zero interest rates was a money rocket that fueled startups going to the sky. But what goes up usually comes down eventually with gravity/interest rates.

A small fraction of startups will become super sucessfull but the majority wont. The number of sucessfull probably follows some kind of statistical distribution of which startups is great vs bad.

Higher interest rates will adjust future return calculations that is brilliant from the article!

Re: VCs are scared when they should be greedy

#90
From the linked article: "Critically, the venture market at the time was tiny relative to today’s ecosystem"

This isn't quite true. At least for US VC investment in dollars. It peaked at $66 billion in 2000, and didn't surpass that amount until 2018, according to these charts:

https://pitchbook.infogram.com/6-vm-charts-1h8n6m3klxngj4x

https://www.statista.com/chart/11443/venture-capital-activit...

And if you adjust for inflation, that year 2000 $66B is $103.86B in 2021 dollars, and the 2nd chart shows 2021 getting to $128B.

Now the two different data sources do have somewhat different numbers for each comparable year. I couldn't find a comparison that covered enough years to show the difference. But I think it's pretty clear that the dot com era was a spectacularly fast increase in VC funding. And the more recent years were slower growth, but did end up getting to slightly higher numbers, if you adjust for inflation.

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