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Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

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Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't sorted it out, but it's also fundamentally not really something that Google can sort out. They have a legal responsibility to respond to these copyright claims, with major penalties if they don't -- this is from DMCA and its successors, from an era of... I don't want to say "copyright maximalism," but something closer to copyright maximalism than the balance is today. We need to reform the legal responsi…

> They haven't sorted it out, but it's also fundamentally not really something that Google can sort out. This isn't really true. The main grievance people have with Google is that they've automated _everything_ to the point where it's impossible to escalate to a real person. They enable this type of abuse because they make it easy for people to abuse the DMCA system with impunity. Even massive channels and companies…

> they've automated _everything_ to the point where it's impossible to escalate to a real person

Well, yes, because any place where you can escalate to a human, would be flooded with people trying to step around the whole automated edifice without ever first trying to engage with it. People would post links to it on various forums saying "hey, doing X allows you to get a Google CSR on the line" (even though that person is only empowered to do a very specific thing, and probably doesn't have internal contacts for their equivalents in any other department), and then those CSRs would be demoted-in-practice to level-1 triage, even though level-1 triage is supposed to be the machine's job.

As it so happens, Google do offer plenty of ways to engage with them — they just can't "say any of them out loud", or they'll be bombarded and rendered useless, as above.

I'll give you a hint for three such side-channels, though:

- There are public product discussion and bugs mailing lists (Google Groups) for many Google services. The engineers working on these products monitor these lists.

- Some things you'd think Google develops in private, are actually developed in public. Examples: https://github.com/googleapis; https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform. You can file issues on these repos!

- When Google engineers and, especially, Product Managers, put their public @google.com email addresses on conference presentations, they do that for a reason. They want you to reach out with questions/concerns about the thing they've built!

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#82
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only letter the legal team expects through google-legal-support@google.com is a notice of sueing them. I really don't have the power to sue them in a US court. Do people have success when they notify (not sue) the legal team about Google acting against their Terms of Service?

If the amount is low enough you can sue them in small claims court in the US, which the amount is dependent on the state. Small claims court is geared more towards people self defending.

I'm not based in US so even contacting a lawyer about this thing is expensive.

Lawyers here are not willing to handle international cases except big business cases.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#83
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adsense held my funds for 6+ years in a never ending loop of bank account not valid->can’t edit this bank account. Same kafkaesque maze of non-existent support. Beyond frustrating. One day it just suddenly let me fix the issue. No idea why. Your point is spot on, if you don’t have a huge social media following you might as well be invisible. This has to change, hopefully via law. Because it isn’t just a google proble…

6+ years... wow. I'm afraid I'll end up like this: - unable to use Adsense/Admob for years - and not getting the money - money becomes basically nothing because of inflation

Yeah. I should probably note that I wasn’t continually working on the issue. It was attempted sporadically over that time period - mainly because google’s support maze ..err I mean ‘system’ is so terrible.

I would spend ~20 minutes following different resolution paths, get mad at them not helping at all, forget about it because this level of frustration is not worth $100 to me, repeat a few times a year. Don’t get me wrong, $100 is $100 - I just wasn’t in dire need of it I guess.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#84
post #36
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried hiring a lawyer to send a letter to their legal team?

I think the only letter the legal team expects through google-legal-support@google.com is a notice of sueing them. I really don't have the power to sue them in a US court. Do people have success when they notify (not sue) the legal team about Google acting against their Terms of Service?

so, why can't you sue them in your country?

If you are a citizen of another country doing business with Google it should follow that your country's courts have jurisdiction, if you're in the EU I imagine any EU country has jurisdiction (not because I imagine you are, but just as an example of how you might be able to pick a better jurisdiction - but that of course would be up to talking with a lawyer about)

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#85
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adsense held my funds for 6+ years in a never ending loop of bank account not valid->can’t edit this bank account. Same kafkaesque maze of non-existent support. Beyond frustrating. One day it just suddenly let me fix the issue. No idea why. Your point is spot on, if you don’t have a huge social media following you might as well be invisible. This has to change, hopefully via law. Because it isn’t just a google proble…

6+ years... wow. I'm afraid I'll end up like this: - unable to use Adsense/Admob for years - and not getting the money - money becomes basically nothing because of inflation

I'm banned for life from using adsense because my brother thought it would be a fun prank to repeatedly click the ads on my blog. I reported it myself before the next payout and received a generic "you have violated our policies" and a ban that's still there to this day some 15 years later.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#87
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the old days, bigcorps just wouldn't engage with ISVs directly at all. Instead, as an ISV, you'd engage the services of an 'integrator' or 'reseller' — a smaller-scale but still-large entity that you'd have a support contract with — where the integrator would then have a support contract with the bigcorp. If you were having an issue with the bigcorp's product, you'd complain to the reseller, and then they'd compla…

> I'm honestly not sure why Google doesn't push for ['integrator' or 'reseller' — a smaller-scale but still-large entity that you'd have a support contract with] model. Isn't this kinda what multi-channel networks are?

Kind of, but not really.

YouTube MCNs are more like book publishers: none of them are very large in number of supply-side entities aggregated. Some of them have "popular" talent that could very well get YouTube's attention on their own, but none of them are doing collective bargaining for thousands of creators. So there are still tons of them; so YouTube doesn't really relate to them on a first-name basis.

Like book publishers, MCNs mostly offer one of two benefits: either "we do the hard business parts of running a content-creation business for you" (not a lie, though it's a bad deal); or "we have at least one very popular creator, and so by joining with us, you're at-least-theoretically taking advantage of the attention they get." (When that's tenuous, as the popular creators aren't beholden to these groups and might leave at any time, and if they do, there goes your trump card in dealing with YouTube.)

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#88
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Google is not paying my Admob money even after 5 months has passed (no violation, self-close of account) Through the Kafkaesque maze of non-existent Adsense support, my case (they say) finally got escalated to a payment person at Google. Yet, I didn't hear update for the past month. You can't ask anything about your case and you can't get any time projection on when you'll hear anything back. If you don't ha…

Adsense held my funds for 6+ years in a never ending loop of bank account not valid->can’t edit this bank account. Same kafkaesque maze of non-existent support. Beyond frustrating. One day it just suddenly let me fix the issue. No idea why. Your point is spot on, if you don’t have a huge social media following you might as well be invisible. This has to change, hopefully via law. Because it isn’t just a google proble…

> One day it just suddenly let me fix the issue. No idea why

Wild guess: a bugfix was merged and deployed.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#89
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They haven't sorted it out, but it's also fundamentally not really something that Google can sort out. This isn't really true. The main grievance people have with Google is that they've automated _everything_ to the point where it's impossible to escalate to a real person. They enable this type of abuse because they make it easy for people to abuse the DMCA system with impunity. Even massive channels and companies…

> they've automated _everything_ to the point where it's impossible to escalate to a real person Well, yes, because any place where you can escalate to a human, would be flooded with people trying to step around the whole automated edifice without ever first trying to engage with it. People would post links to it on various forums saying "hey, doing X allows you to get a Google CSR on the line" (even though that pers…

> Well, yes, because any place where you can escalate to a human, would be flooded with people trying to step around the whole automated edifice without ever first trying to engage with it.

This is because Google has no culture of human support, so when an agent does become available they're flooded with backlog. If Google started providing it, especially where money is involved, the backlog would eventually be caught up and this would no longer be a big issue. But I suspect they will never do it until forced by law because of the cost.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#90
post #36
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried hiring a lawyer to send a letter to their legal team?

I think the only letter the legal team expects through google-legal-support@google.com is a notice of sueing them. I really don't have the power to sue them in a US court. Do people have success when they notify (not sue) the legal team about Google acting against their Terms of Service?

That's the mechanism that Youtube copyright claims should go through.
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