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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#81

Post by hunglee2 »

alex_smart wrote: post #68
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

excellent article, surprisingly nuanced and - I think - fair in its analysis. The main fear is not that it is a foreign owned app - after all, most people in the countries all over the world are using foreign owned (US) apps - it is because it is the first non-US app used by US citizens which unnerves both the US government and US commentariat. Whether those fears are justified or not, I suspect US will follow the Ch…

>The main fear is not that it is a foreign owned app - after all, most people in the countries all over the world are using foreign owned (US) apps - it is because it is the first non-US app used by US citizens which unnerves both the US government and US commentariat As you can imagine, citizens from other countries are observing this development with great interest.

we can anticipate - maybe even observe - countries which retain something close to sovereignty make moves in this direction. China obviously, but also Modi's India, and I would also say any version of France, still have the ambition to maintain an independent line

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#82

Post by bigcat12345678 »

Teever wrote: post #62
sudosysgen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's not true that they have unrestricted access to the US market, see Huawei, ZTE, etc... And it's not true they have one of the most favourable trade deals, many tariffs are still in effect.

But surely you see that there is a difference in how China regulates American companies operating in China and vice versa? Perhaps the US should adopt a tit for tat policy with regards to China in this matter?

What's the importance of means to an end?

US rules the world through a liberal voting political propaganda; a rule-based capitalism market economy; a USD denominated financial structure.

Sure, US blocked Huawei through rule of law; and you think China has no laws to block FB & Google? But behind the cloak of laws regulations, the intention of mutual exclusion is pure and same, nothing different.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#83

Post by Avamander »

Ekaros wrote: post #42
djbusby wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the other Chinese apps were clones. TikTock was a novel improvement to the crap of Twitter and Facebook, etc. And it's algo is(was?) very "good"

One has to wonder why none of the big USA based players don't have as good product? From what I have heard there isn't really anything special with the app itself. Ofc, it has reached the critical mass in creators, but it was there for taking...

Because TikTok has so far kept its strongly algorithmically tailored content to retain users, instead of optimising for more ad minutes like YouTube or Facebook.

YouTube could be just as good, even without shorts, if it actually gave people what they want instead of what makes YT the absolute maximum amount of money over.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#84

Post by ok123456 »

est31 wrote: post #76
Ekaros wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has to wonder why none of the big USA based players don't have as good product? From what I have heard there isn't really anything special with the app itself. Ofc, it has reached the critical mass in creators, but it was there for taking...

Youtube has built shorts (youtube tiktok competitor), and according to Google it has more users now than tiktok [0] even though it's been launched in September 2020. It contains tons of reposts of tiktok videos, sometimes legal ones by the original creators, sometimes uploads by third parties. That being said, I would take that claim with a big grain of salt, for multiple reasons. First you need to look at the releva…

Yeah they stuck "shorts" on the homepage so that anyone who visits "youtube.com" has to see them. That's not actual engagement.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#85

Post by lostmsu »

okasaki wrote: post #45
rcpt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the US and PRC are equally authoritarian" isn't particularly compelling either

Indeed, abortion is legal in China[1], the last time a police officer killed someone was in 2019[2] and their incarceration rate is 5x lower[3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_China [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

The police in China doesn't kill with guns. It kills by preventing people from demanding better healthcare.

The same goes for incarceration. In US 3M people can't use Internet due to being incarcerated, but in China more than 1.5B have significant restrictions. (This is just an example for the idea of total restricted freedom)

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#86

Post by Avamander »

tonymet wrote: post #5

they mention data harvesting and influencing public relations as risks, and both are worrisome . another more subtle but pernicious concern is the trivialization of entertainment (which started from a low bar ) tiktok is addictive and much of the content is low bar , slapstick and sexually suggestive thirst traps . there may be a good share of high quality content , but we all know time spent is on garbage. our grand…

No post body was provided.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#87

Post by simonsarris »

dijit wrote: post #66
dymk wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, US/China relations are pretty distinct from US/EU relations.

Why do you think that's the case? Aside from the trade-war that's going on, which is pretty arbirary; The US has routinely spied on Europe, allowed backdoored technology to make it's way into the continent including to spy on government officials from another sovereign (allegedly allied ) nation. It's hard for me not to draw direct comparisons, because other than the surface level of "everything's fine, we have a com…

At enormous expense the US rebuilt Europe (Marshall plan), protected it from Soviet Encroachment (and is still doing so to this day, apparently), and is above all reciprocal with Europe in a way that China is not.

Facebook is not banned in Europe. Spotify is not banned in America. Both are banned in China. On that basis alone both entities have ample cause to limit China's influence in their own domestic spheres.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#88

Post by yieldcrv »

crmd wrote: post #28

85% of US teenagers use tiktok. That's 85% of the future generation of US senators, Cabinet members, and Supreme Court justices, of police chiefs, civil rights activists, mayors, CEOs, etc. in their bedrooms right now consuming content curated by, and filming their lives and that of their friends, and uploading the video to data centers, that are controlled by a strategic adversary of the United States. This is, to p…

Because having it all public and on moot’s server in Virginia is so much better

I just can’t make this different enough. I see the difference, just not enough.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#89

Post by OJFord »

dijit wrote: post #60
crmd wrote: post #28

85% of US teenagers use tiktok. That's 85% of the future generation of US senators, Cabinet members, and Supreme Court justices, of police chiefs, civil rights activists, mayors, CEOs, etc. in their bedrooms right now consuming content curated by, and filming their lives and that of their friends, and uploading the video to data centers, that are controlled by a strategic adversary of the United States. This is, to p…

This might sound like a fallacious argument; but do you think the same about Europeans who consume almost exclusively US media and interact almost exclusively with US social media platforms? The US (famously) does not have Allies, only temporary allegiances. If you're discussing ties to government, Twitter and Facebook have members on their boards publicly who are sitting and/or former members of government including…

We won't really find out until there's a big European social media platform or whatever - I agree with you it's weird, but the obvious response (and you've received it) is along the lines of conjecturing that they wouldn't worry about UK-Tok, Têtebook, or Deutschezon. Maybe that's right. It'd be fun to find out. (Also for other reasons, come on, what's going on that there isn't really even one to name?)

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#90

Post by threatofrain »

dijit wrote: post #60
crmd wrote: post #28

85% of US teenagers use tiktok. That's 85% of the future generation of US senators, Cabinet members, and Supreme Court justices, of police chiefs, civil rights activists, mayors, CEOs, etc. in their bedrooms right now consuming content curated by, and filming their lives and that of their friends, and uploading the video to data centers, that are controlled by a strategic adversary of the United States. This is, to p…

This might sound like a fallacious argument; but do you think the same about Europeans who consume almost exclusively US media and interact almost exclusively with US social media platforms? The US (famously) does not have Allies, only temporary allegiances. If you're discussing ties to government, Twitter and Facebook have members on their boards publicly who are sitting and/or former members of government including…

Europeans are free to quantify the threat which the US poses to European geopolitical concerns, and many European countries have decided to avoid AWS for such reasons.

The US, similarly, ought be free to feel that EU is not the same as China, and allow a different economic relationship with the EU than with China. The US is currently amicable with the EU and is thus willing to treat the EU very differently than with China.

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