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New California law requires high schools to start later

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Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#81

Post by lemoncookiechip »

synergy20 wrote: post #21

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40(assuming you're not too far from school that is). why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. 2. School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they…

"why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me."

It's so parents who have to go to work, can drop their kids off. The youngest are the ones who shouldn't (in most cities unfortunately) be going by public transports by themselves. While teens can just take the bus or subway.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#82

Post by fleddr »

krasin wrote: post #27
giantg2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bigger issue is unsupervised minors. Not all high schoolers are mature enough to be left alone and go to school. I suppose this could be solved by pre-care, but that make this bill completely moot.

>Not all high schoolers are mature enough to be left alone and go to school As an anecdote, 100% of my class was coming to the school and back without being supervised since age 8. This was in 90s and not in the US, but the gap of "mature enough to go to school" between my experience and the statement feels a bit high, somehow.

Late 80s, Netherlands. As of the age of 6, I was free roaming on my tiny bicycle. I could go wherever I please, zero supervision, just be back in time for diner. And of course without any technology (smartphone).

Modern parents would have a heart attack.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#83

Post by [deleted] »

gruez wrote: post #48
synergy20 wrote: post #21

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40(assuming you're not too far from school that is). why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. 2. School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they…

A recent economist article explains it well: >Since the 1950s Americans have been moving away from cities to sprawling suburbs with limited public transport. Families became car-dependent and buses were used to get pupils to school. But to save money schools often have to share bus fleets. High-schoolers are usually picked up first, then middle school, to prevent elementary pupils from waiting in the morning darkness…

[deleted]

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#84

Post by april_22 »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #13
smm11 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because they won't just stay up later then.

Some of them may, but many more will wake up comfortably due to more sunshine flooding through the window.

Exactly. Sunshine is proven to supress melatonin production (no matter whether night owl or early bird). Melatonin is usually produced at night and encourages you to feel sleepy. So later waking up times are certainly helpful, even if the person goes to bed a bit later.

https://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/0006-322... https://you.com/search?q=light+melatonin+production

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#85

Post by vlunkr »

MikePlacid wrote: post #71

My public-schooled daughter (now doing PhD in game theory in UCSD) has a best friend (now doing PhD in meteorology in CalTech). The best friend was home schooled - as they do it now in California, i.e. she participated in a rather intense network of online and offline study groups and community college courses. They compared notes. The conclusion: the quality of the education was the same. But in our - rather good -…

I'd be interested in seeing some kind of study on this. Before high school, yeah, there's lots of time wasted on watching videos and coloring pages, but I don't remember high school being so bad. Unless the teacher was really lazy, we usually covered lots of material.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#86

Post by MonkeyMalarky »

giantg2 wrote: post #64
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't trust a highschool aged kid to go to school on their own, early start times aren't going to change anything. Heck, you can drive them to the building and watch them walk inside and they'll just walk right out the back. Delinquent kids dgaf. Now for the not totally delinquent but still up for sketchy borderline behaviour kids, finishing early and having couple hours between the end of class and when their…

If the kids really have a hard time waking up (the point t of this law), then it's possible they over sleep. Many parents might not be comfortable with their kid cooking breakfast unsupervised too. If they're in after school activities and/or have a job, then it seem unlikely that they would get into trouble anyways. Pushing the time back will make these after school activities unfeasible for many, and limit opportun…

I'm failing to reconcile the image of a hypothetical teenager who is both so irresponsible and incompetent that you can't trust them to get up or make breakfast on their own without burning down the house while simultaneously being capable of having an after school job.

If you can't leave them unsupervised in the mornings, surely they can't be left alone after school either. Net net, there's going to be some time they're unsupervised. May as well let them get some rest. Maybe the lack of sleep deprivation will even encourage better decision-making.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#87

Post by giantg2 »

alistairSH wrote: post #58
troupe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like something that might better be decided at the local school district level.

The problem with that approach is the debate tends to be led by football parents who want to make sure there’s ample time for the kids to beat each other senseless on the field. Literally, that’s the argument we got in Fairfax County when similar proposals were floated.

This sounds like a vast over simplification and plain scapegoating. All the school start time surveys I've seen typically have an even split up to moderately favoring normal start times. Half the school is not on the football team.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#88

Post by alar44 »

giantg2 wrote: post #45
iso1631 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We're talking high schools - which I believe in the US is about age 15 onwards, nothing to do with parents

How do you think this has nothing to do with parents? You do realize that 14-17 is still a minor?

And are fully capable of walking, riding bikes, or waiting for the bus on their own. The permanent infantilization of America is fucking insane and dangerous.

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#89

Post by khazhoux »

ar_lan wrote: post #80

This seems crazy late. IIRC I had a 0-period class starting at 6:00am. Starting 2.5 hours later is surprising. If I were back in high school, all this would have told me is that I'm staying up until at least midnight, if not later. I was usually good about sleeping around 9:30pm which gave me roughly 9 hours sleep. Since I assume this means school will end later in the day, this just means homework gets pushed much l…

> I had a 0-period class starting at 6:00am

Your school admins were assholes. What unholy sadists would start school that early??

What country was this?

Re: New California law requires high schools to start later

#90

Post by veilrap »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.h... https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aau6200

The fact that "late bedtimes" is listed as a cause is telling - shifting the start time later isn't likely to help if it just allows/causes people to shift their bedtimes later in response.

Teens who go to bed at a reasonable hour are getting enough sleep and performing well.

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