Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#81

Post by yakubin » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:42 PM UTC

RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #54

Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there? If yes, then Amazon is not "bowing", and it is The Guardian who is playing word games here. If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. Now, one may argue that the c…

> Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there?

They may do that, but then playing a champion of the opposing values when it's convenient (pride month in the western world) is hypocrisy and it should be pointed out. If they didn't have an LGBTQ-based PR campaign in the West, then this move wouldn't merit a mention. Alas, it does.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#82

Post by maratc » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:42 PM UTC

sweetheart wrote: post #24

ominous wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any argument here in Amazon’s defense? Can you phrase the attack you imagine they need defense from in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position (or that tries to achieve a universal position) everyone must adhere to?

I feel as though homophobia is never an acceptable worldview, so if you want me to reword what I said in a way that doesn’t imply that, I won’t. Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter.

> Some things are simply wrong. This is one of those things. If one’s worldview disagrees, then theirs is simply incorrect on this matter.

The GP said, "in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position ... everyone must adhere to". Your response still assumes that universality.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#83

Post by zmgsabst » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:43 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72

RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #54

Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there? If yes, then Amazon is not "bowing", and it is The Guardian who is playing word games here. If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. Now, one may argue that the c…

> remember not to blame them for "banning western companies" in the future American companies are banned from paying foreign bribes. They’re not given a free pass with suporting genocide or terrorism, regardless of where it happens, even if that’s the law or custom somewhere else. If we place domestic profits over sex trafficking or death penalties for gay people, so long as it’s there not here, then fine, let’s live…

I’d just like them to pick a lane:

- sociopathic corporation, profits above people… and stop pushing rainbow symbols all month domestically

- actually find your backbone and push rainbows globally

I think customers should refuse to tolerate the abuser mentality of corporations screaming at people who already agree about “gay rights” while refusing to actually stand up for them globally.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#84

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:43 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #73

I just cannot understand why so many people get so angry about what other consenting adults get up to in a closed bedroom. Live and let live.

I also can't understand why we need parades that share what other people do in their bedrooms. This cuts both ways.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#85

Post by 31835843 » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:44 PM UTC

RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #54

Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there? If yes, then Amazon is not "bowing", and it is The Guardian who is playing word games here. If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. Now, one may argue that the c…

> If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world.

“impose their ideology” is a disingenuous frame for this situation. They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for.

That’s not a pop-up that says “Muhammad was bisexual.”

In any case, cultural relativism is a liberal cop-out. American companies should use their capital to promote American values.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#86

Post by toolz » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:44 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72

RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #54

Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there? If yes, then Amazon is not "bowing", and it is The Guardian who is playing word games here. If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. Now, one may argue that the c…

> remember not to blame them for "banning western companies" in the future American companies are banned from paying foreign bribes. They’re not given a free pass with suporting genocide or terrorism, regardless of where it happens, even if that’s the law or custom somewhere else. If we place domestic profits over sex trafficking or death penalties for gay people, so long as it’s there not here, then fine, let’s live…

It's quite a stretch to go from banning LGBT searches to death penalties for those same people. The west bans information all the time that it deems dangerous, our value system is just different.

I would argue our value system is vastly superior, but I would never demand someone take my values as their own.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#87

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:44 PM UTC

Companies will do whatever they can to increase profits in the market they find themselves in? The choice to paint a logo rainbow, or not paint a logo rainbow, is purely a monetary decision and doesn't actually reflect whether the company cares about social justice or not? Companies exist to make money? What a hot take.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#88

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:45 PM UTC

zmgsabst wrote: post #83

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remember not to blame them for "banning western companies" in the future American companies are banned from paying foreign bribes. They’re not given a free pass with suporting genocide or terrorism, regardless of where it happens, even if that’s the law or custom somewhere else. If we place domestic profits over sex trafficking or death penalties for gay people, so long as it’s there not here, then fine, let’s live…

I’d just like them to pick a lane: - sociopathic corporation, profits above people… and stop pushing rainbow symbols all month domestically - actually find your backbone and push rainbows globally I think customers should refuse to tolerate the abuser mentality of corporations screaming at people who already agree about “gay rights” while refusing to actually stand up for them globally.

> customers should refuse to tolerate the abuser mentality of corporations

Boycotts work when they’re deep, acute and with agreement on the solution that will lift it. Boycotts won’t do anything here. This requires legislation.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#89

Post by tharne » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:45 PM UTC

sweetheart wrote: post #4

Is there any argument here in Amazon’s defense? Or is my initial disgust at Amazon truly the appropriate response. I cannot fathom being the person at Amazon who makes that call. Do they sleep well at night? Do they feel good about themselves?

> I cannot fathom being the person at Amazon who makes that call. Do they sleep well at night? Do they feel good about themselves?

I'm sure they sleep fine. It's not the role of a retailer to promote a particular political agenda. If we all only transacted with people we agreed with, we wouldn't have a society.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#90

Post by maratc » Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 12:45 PM UTC

schuyler2d wrote: post #57

ominous wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any argument here in Amazon’s defense? Can you phrase the attack you imagine they need defense from in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position (or that tries to achieve a universal position) everyone must adhere to?

> Can you phrase the attack you imagine they need defense from in a way that doesn't assume your worldview is the universal position (or that tries to achieve a universal position) everyone must adhere to? Why not apply your same maxim to the UAE and see where you get? Why do gay people in the UAE have to submit to what the UAE requires to be universal?

We may roll with it to the point of discussing why do schoolchildren in the UAE have to submit to laws restricting guns, and how their freedom to bring guns to schools is oppressed.

"There is no monopoly of common sense, on either side of the political fence."