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BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

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Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#81

Post by jjtheblunt »

themitigating wrote: post #27
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda wish, as it stands it feels like decades of different protocols and technologies awkwardly stitched together. In theory everything would be connected on a central bus to a centralized RTOS computer able to read every sensor and adjust everything that needs it 1000x a second (or more), so that anyone could easily hook up a new device or software and subscribe to an event bus, but alas.

Mostly every component on modern cars uses the CAN bus for communication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus Many third party companies have made accessories to read information or control devices using it. Cars also have a standard diagnostic port called the OBD2 which you can purchase $10 readers that use bluetooth with your phone. Cars may have much more electronics but with all the sensors it's very easy to kno…

The Golf is a 2 liter turbo, i think

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#82

Post by jjtheblunt »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #71
Nullabillity wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?! > I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.

> Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. I learned to drive in manuals (because they're more common in the UK). I currently own two automatics and drive a variety of manuals, automatics and EVs that are kind of inherently "automatic". I don't see any difference in "driving experience" between manual and automatic. What do *you* think the difference is?

Not what you were thinking, I guess, but I push-started my manual Saab and Honda many times, could my manual Mercedes but never needed to, which you can't do with an automatic.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#83

Post by smilekzs »

rconti wrote: post #64
phkahler wrote: post #44

A lot of the complexity here is because the gear selector is considered a safety-critical part. They may also consider LED indicators on it as safety-critical information to the driver. Those two things - is the transmission receiving the real intent of the driver, and is the driver being told the actual state of the system - are just the top level. Security is also starting to be a concern, though I think there is r…

Yup. Bad Things can happen: https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/autos/jeep-recall-anton-yel... I absolutely hate stateless switches on automotive stuff. Why can't I tell that my turn signal is on by 'feel'? Why do I have to rely on a (too quiet) clicking, or a (too hidden) indicator light? I have an E70 X5 with the "new style" transmission selector, as well as a Tesla 3 that replicates it on the right side of the column…

Fortunately, G20 onwards have returned to a mechanically latching turning signal stalk design.

Unfortunately, ZN8/ZD8 Toyota GR86 / Subaru BRZ (the new ones!) have regressed to the dreaded mechanically momentary (non-latching) turning signal stalk design.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#84

Post by sandworm101 »

rconti wrote: post #64
phkahler wrote: post #44

A lot of the complexity here is because the gear selector is considered a safety-critical part. They may also consider LED indicators on it as safety-critical information to the driver. Those two things - is the transmission receiving the real intent of the driver, and is the driver being told the actual state of the system - are just the top level. Security is also starting to be a concern, though I think there is r…

Yup. Bad Things can happen: https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/autos/jeep-recall-anton-yel... I absolutely hate stateless switches on automotive stuff. Why can't I tell that my turn signal is on by 'feel'? Why do I have to rely on a (too quiet) clicking, or a (too hidden) indicator light? I have an E70 X5 with the "new style" transmission selector, as well as a Tesla 3 that replicates it on the right side of the column…

>> Why can't I tell that my turn signal is on by 'feel'?

I once had a ford rental car with turn signals that made me actively avoid using them. They felt OK, but the clicking of the relay was fake, a recorded sound. All seemed good until you cancelled the indicator. The computer sometimes kept playing the fake clicking sound. It kept clicking for a full click cycle every time you cancelled the indicator mid-click. It was only a fraction of a second, a full second at most, but I always thought that I had failed to cancel the indicator. It was both the smallest and most annoying problem I've ever had with a car.

2nd most annoying: Driving a US-made care in a country using the metric system. The cruise control is incapable of being adjusted a single kph, instead the minimum change is some number of mph. So you are stuck doing either 99 or 101, but never exactly 100 kph. The source of the problem is confirmed where the cruise control can be set to 80 kph, which is almost exactly 50mph. I venture that no BMW has ever had this problem.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#85

Post by Gordonjcp »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #82
Gordonjcp wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. I learned to drive in manuals (because they're more common in the UK). I currently own two automatics and drive a variety of manuals, automatics and EVs that are kind of inherently "automatic". I don't see any difference in "driving experience" between manual and automatic. What do *you* think the difference is?

Not what you were thinking, I guess, but I push-started my manual Saab and Honda many times, could my manual Mercedes but never needed to, which you can't do with an automatic.

You can if you get them moving fast enough, but it's terrible for the gearbox.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#86

Post by windowsrookie »

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #49
wolrah wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. If it's a manual transmission or an ancient automatic, sure, but manual transmission trucks basically haven't existed for a decade or so and every automatic since the mid 90s has an electronic gear selector of some variety. Somehow the world keeps working just fine. The biggest problem that's come up with them has been…

> manual transmission trucks basically haven't existed for a decade That might be true of pickup trucks, but commercial trucks are virtually all manual.

Not anymore. I drove Semi trucks and most fleets are going all automatic these days. There are of course some who still prefer a manual, But I would bet commercial trucks will be 90%+ automatics in 10 years.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#87

Post by stefan_ »

wolrah wrote: post #6
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, as an input for video games. The latency makes me ugh. Certainly don't want that much "systems" stuff between me and the transmission of a car I'm piloting.

> Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. If it's a manual transmission or an ancient automatic, sure, but manual transmission trucks basically haven't existed for a decade or so and every automatic since the mid 90s has an electronic gear selector of some variety. Somehow the world keeps working just fine. The biggest problem that's come up with them has been…

I think the first part of this blog series had the gear selector sending it's state every 30ms - so you are looking at some averaged ~15ms of latency just from this thing.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#88

Post by dicknuckle »

rconti wrote: post #64
phkahler wrote: post #44

A lot of the complexity here is because the gear selector is considered a safety-critical part. They may also consider LED indicators on it as safety-critical information to the driver. Those two things - is the transmission receiving the real intent of the driver, and is the driver being told the actual state of the system - are just the top level. Security is also starting to be a concern, though I think there is r…

Yup. Bad Things can happen: https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/autos/jeep-recall-anton-yel... I absolutely hate stateless switches on automotive stuff. Why can't I tell that my turn signal is on by 'feel'? Why do I have to rely on a (too quiet) clicking, or a (too hidden) indicator light? I have an E70 X5 with the "new style" transmission selector, as well as a Tesla 3 that replicates it on the right side of the column…

As an aside, I was able to change the audible level of the turn signals on my 2020 Toyota with their Techstream software (from the usual shady sources) and a Tactrix cable I originally bought for flashing my Subaru ECU. Maybe you can do the same for your vehicles with their dedicated software.

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#89

Post by userbinator »

rconti wrote: post #64
phkahler wrote: post #44

A lot of the complexity here is because the gear selector is considered a safety-critical part. They may also consider LED indicators on it as safety-critical information to the driver. Those two things - is the transmission receiving the real intent of the driver, and is the driver being told the actual state of the system - are just the top level. Security is also starting to be a concern, though I think there is r…

Yup. Bad Things can happen: https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/autos/jeep-recall-anton-yel... I absolutely hate stateless switches on automotive stuff. Why can't I tell that my turn signal is on by 'feel'? Why do I have to rely on a (too quiet) clicking, or a (too hidden) indicator light? I have an E70 X5 with the "new style" transmission selector, as well as a Tesla 3 that replicates it on the right side of the column…

The E90 and newer BMWs seem to have indicator clicks that are almost inaudible

That's very odd, given how much emphasis they have (or used to?) about road-feel and other forms of feedback while driving, and BMW's slogan is "the ultimate driving machine".

Re: BMW F Series Gear Selector, Part Two: Breakthrough

#90

Post by simondotau »

quarantaseih wrote: post #61

Im currently renting a BMW with this gear selector. In fairness, I throughly hate the car (an X1). Terrible lag, awful throttle response, terrible steering, unpredictable brakes, etc. But the two candidates for worst feature of the car are 1. The gear selector 2. The indicator lights Every time I have to engage one of the two I let out a little curse. I driven stick shifts, autos, rear wheel drive cars, trucks, front…

Pretty much everything you’ve said is the exact opposite of my experience (BMW 1-series F20 125i).

Great throttle response, minimal turbo lag, precise steering, and highly controllable confidence inspiring brakes.

I can see why someone might not like the shifter and indicator stalk, but they simply haven’t been an issue for me. In fact there’s aspects of them which I prefer.

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