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V Language Review

mawfig.github.io

81–90 of 336 posts

Re: V Language Review

#81
post #44
post #37

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An article like the V one on Zig checking the claims would be awesome, wouldnt it.?

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Why do you keep saying "competitors"? Do you really think every V detractor in this thread has their own pocket language they want to shill for at V's expense?

I don't think that's the case. I believe most people just don't like seeing others spreading lies and like when they are refuted.

Re: V Language Review

#82
post #50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every evaluation in my blog is fully reproducible from the version of V I linked to and I've included all the source code used as well. My post stands on it's own. Instead of insinuating I'm some kind of competitor or have a personal agenda, I would encourage you to respond to the actual points raised in my post.

That's interesting or telling, because if you read what I posted carefully, I was not insinuating anything about your evaluation. Instead, the point was being made that you probably don't want to be associated with an old evaluation from 3 years ago, which is falsely accusing V of being vaporware, and where the author and the developer of V clearly have beefs with each other.

And how did you conclude that author is "falsely" making any accusation? Is it similar to your last claim (1) that V doesn't have "null" (which has been debunked)?

(1): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31084446

Re: V Language Review

#84
post #38
post #18

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Thanks for linking Xe's blog here! It's a few years old and I've seen a lot of comments on HN that suggest V has improved significantly since 2019 so I thought it might be worth looking into for myself and writing down a review of what I found.

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You are not doing yourself any favor by harassing people, if anything it makes you look like a fan-boy. Do yourself a favor, read the article then present a constructive criticism, if any.

Re: V Language Review

#85
post #44
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An article like the V one on Zig checking the claims would be awesome, wouldnt it.?

Quoted post unavailable.

No, the reason is that Zig doesn't make wild claims about what it can do and then fail to back them up.

Based on your posts in this thread, you seem to have a very paranoid outlook, where everyone is out to get V for no rational reason at all, and implying they have sinister motives. But: anyone can just run the code examples in the article and see for themselves that V is just not living up to its promises. It's just more confirmation that the V people are a little cult that can't take any criticism at all.

Re: V Language Review

#86
post #38
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for linking Xe's blog here! It's a few years old and I've seen a lot of comments on HN that suggest V has improved significantly since 2019 so I thought it might be worth looking into for myself and writing down a review of what I found.

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> Remember, the competition between various younger languages has become a bit fierce and dirty.

As someone who works full time on one relatively young language, has created a couple more, and knows people working on many others, this is 100% wrong in my personal experience.

Most young language teams work very hard to communicate accurately and to set appropriate expectations because they know that user trust is a hard requirement for adoption.

V is the outlier here.

Re: V Language Review

#87
post #36
post #3

Christine Dodrill's early assessment of the language might be of interest here: https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 She doesn't pull any punches, but I think she was quite prescient in capturing the vibe of the project.

Why in the world do competitors of this programming language insist on dragging out evaluations from 3 years ago, which state that V is vaporware and before the language was even released? This is 2022, not 2019, and we are talking a hundred releases later ( https://github.com/vlang/v/releases ). At least stick to the current evaluation (or attack), which is more relevant, and make points from there. But, keep in min…

Your keep calling people "competitors." I don't think you're using the word right. Perhaps "detractors" is what you mean, but "reviewers" is more neutral. Xe and mawfig don't appear to be offering their own languages to compete with V. At one point, Andy Kelly (a "competitor") criticized the author's behavior, but he's also gone silent on the topic of V because of the vitriol he encountered.

One reason that people highlight older criticism is because it's useful to examine past behavior, past promises, and contrast them to current behavior and current promises. If V is going to improve its reputation, it's going to do it by (a) making good on the promises it can, (b) coming clean on the promises it can't, and (c) offer a clear win for some distinguishing featureset. Badgering people to shut up about the past isn't on that list.

Re: V Language Review

#88
post #74
post #72

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"ML-derived languages like OCaml are "mostly pure". They allow side-effects through things like references and arrays, but by and large most of the code you'll write will be pure functional because they encourage this thinking. Haskell, another functional language, is pure functional. OCaml is therefore more practical because writing impure functions is sometimes useful." https://ocaml.org/docs/functional-programming…

"A pure function is one without any side-effects." https://ocaml.org/docs/functional-programming "V functions are pure by default, meaning that their return values are a function of their arguments only, and their evaluation has no side effects (besides I/O)." https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#pure-func... It sure sounds to me like V is trying to claim that functions can be pure while still performin…

Yeah, "no side effects (besides I/O)" is so absurd it's funny.

Re: V Language Review

#89
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every evaluation in my blog is fully reproducible from the version of V I linked to and I've included all the source code used as well. My post stands on it's own. Instead of insinuating I'm some kind of competitor or have a personal agenda, I would encourage you to respond to the actual points raised in my post.

Are there any other language evaluations in your blog, or a plan for any, etc? I'd like to read other reviews, but I only see this one post.

For what its worth, the zig site has what is functionally this blog post for its own language: https://ziglang.org/learn/overview/. There's maybe a few spots where I think they could be clearer about some tradeoffs, but overall its very explicit about what the language can and cannot do, and if I were using this post's style, we'd end up with lots of green checks and 1-2 yellow squares, but nothing red.

Which really is the issue here: v makes a big talk but doesn't do what it says on the tin, while other languages, generally speaking, do. There's a difference between goals and features, and Zig distinguishes those well.

Re: V Language Review

#90
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any other language evaluations in your blog, or a plan for any, etc? I'd like to read other reviews, but I only see this one post.

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Do you actually have a substantive rebuttal? "The first and only thing he criticized is V" means nothing at all. What a childish thing to say.
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