Good for them! It'd be nice to see a software engineering guild emerge in the coming years. Think about the benefits we could accrue; I for one would strongly prefer a real pension to a 401K.
Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you worked at a company where you were treated unfairly, were lied to, etc? How'd that work out for you?
I left because the UFCW wasn’t representing me. People think that unions are simply fair by default but some are really an Animal Farm where all animals are equal, just some are more equal than others.
Yeah, there are bad unions just like bad companies. At least they tend to have contracts when companies don't. I would love to have contracts be required via legislation rather than unions.
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
A union tends to be a monopoly on labor supply in most cases. Not a competitive labor market. Bargaining collectively = monopoly. They can raise wages up to the level of marginal profit of the employing company. Just the same as a company that's a monopoly could raise prices up to marginal value of the good to the customer. If the company can bypass the union to hire others, then it's not a monopoly. But if the union…
Seems like there is a wide gap between a single company organizing a union for their employers and a monopoly on the labor supply. I would be more convinced by your point if this wasn't one of the first tech unions (according to headline).
It depends how it's structured. If Kickstarter can go and hire non union labor, then all is good.
If the whole union will quit unanimously if they do that, then they have effective monopoly power over labor for the company.
The company will die if they try to bypass the union. In this case they could distort compensation far above what a competitive market would bear, and consumers of Kickstarter eat the cost (e.g. broader society).
It's definitely not a free lunch where workers get paid more and there's no societal cost, as many would like to believe
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you worked at a company where you were treated unfairly, were lied to, etc? How'd that work out for you?
Yeah, I left for greener pastures and more pay. It's called the free market. Badly run companies will get weak talent and become uncompetitive.
It doesn't have to be badly run. If 5% are getting screwed over, it won't hurt the company.
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#85Kickstarter also voted itself to become a Public Benefits Corporation [1] so you would hope they were already out in front of ensuring contributor rights are fairly represented in concert with other stakeholders. [1] https://medium.com/kickstarter/kickstarter-is-a-pbc-heres-wh...
Also a large chunk of the employees who didn't want to unionize (25-35% of their peak headcount) left the company over some of the tactics employed in the contested fight over unionizing the company.
A recently unionized workplace can get hostile to workers who opposed it. This is fine by me: if you opposed the majority of your coworkers in their struggle for better material working conditions, then you should feel their resentment.
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#86Good for them! It'd be nice to see a software engineering guild emerge in the coming years. Think about the benefits we could accrue; I for one would strongly prefer a real pension to a 401K.
Oh yea? You can have mine, if you give me your 401k.
(It’s like $20k per year, and you’ll pay taxes on that when the day comes. You may have to move to Sweden to survive on it.)
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I left for greener pastures and more pay. It's called the free market. Badly run companies will get weak talent and become uncompetitive.
It doesn't have to be badly run. If 5% are getting screwed over, it won't hurt the company.
Those 5% can argue for better conditions or leave. If their value is not commensurate with their asks, they won't get it.
Both labor supply and demand needs to be competitive for an efficient society.
If there's a single employer in town, and lack of mobility for residents, that's a monopoly on labor demand just the same as a union is a monopoly on labor supply
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Competition applies to labor too, by the way Yes, which is why unions are great. Corporations bargain collectively by default; each is a large unit, with a lot of resources, composed of many people. Unions allow individuals to bargain collectively, to match corporations in terms of leverage, because few individuals are valuable enough to even come close.
> Corporations bargain collectively by default; Only with unskilled labor. My profession is skilled and the skillset is in demand and hard to find. I bargain for myself, thanks. I have repeatedly and at length discussed on HN about my 3 separate union membership experiences and how I will never again repeat them.
"unskilled labor"
What an extremely elitist phrase.
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why does organizing mean you hate your workplace? Organizing means you want more power, more control. Also, there are many dimensions to liking or disliking your workplace. You may love the product your working on. You may really like your colleagues. You may also love the office environment. However, you may dislike the amount of vacation days, the lack of ability to work part time or the lack of paternal leave. Wor…
Part of being an Adult TM is separating emotions from work. Admittedly, I was able to work on some very cool shit at Amazon - however the job made me hate my life. Ergo - adult logical cycles were spent, decided to get a new job after leetcoding for a bit. The people who aren't skilled enough to get new jobs or improve themselves (also holds true in any industry) will always be some degree of fucked. I admit, some un…
There are many reasons someone might want to remain at their place of work and still retain improved benefits and treatment from their employer. As an adult, it’s not for you to judge others’ reasons: who are you to say I should quit my job and spend my time solving stupid Leetcode problems?
If we can agree on that, then I’m not sure how we can disagree that unions can be an important tool in helping employees achieve greater representation in a system which generally privileges the will of execs and board members far above those of employees - you know, the people who actually make the company run.
If unions ever dominate the tech industry to the extent that they control the labor pool, we can discuss whether that’s a good thing. For now, that’s just a bogeyman. But having real leverage to increase your bargaining power in the workspace — IMO that’s very good. No one is stopping you from spending your time doing Leetcode, though.
Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts
#90Is it mandatory for employees to join the union?
I doubt that would be legal. The unions in Sweden tried it, but it was against rights enshrined in the constitution (freedom of association), so didn’t fly even here.