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Forces that fuel friendship

theatlantic.com

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Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#81

Post by dominotw »

yosito wrote: post #32

I clicked expecting to see some science-based research about what results in good friendships. Instead I found an opinion based listicle. Not necessarily a bad article for provoking thought, but definitely more opinion than fact. I recently went to cross cultural a meetup where friendship was the topic of discussion. One thing I realized is that people struggle to agree on a definition of friendship. There's an espec…

> science-based research about what results in good friendships

Isn't research like this deemed totally bunk and unrepeatable. Is it really better than a thoughtful 'listicle'.

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#82

Post by [deleted] »

fny wrote: post #73
photochemsyn wrote: post #64

American society at least is highly fractured these days, along all kinds of lines, and this seems to have resulted in high levels of distrust across those lines - ideological, economic, racial, gender, and probably a host of others. This tends to push people into clusters where they all share the same ideological viewpoints, which is a depressing situation. My idea of a great party has always been one where a group…

> "don't try to leverage friendships for personal economic gain" Aristotle identifies three types of friendships. 1. Friendships of utility, the types you exploit for gain 2. Friendships of pleasure, the types you exploit to play basketball 3. Friendships of the good, true friendships

[deleted]

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#83

Post by bnralt »

photochemsyn wrote: post #64

American society at least is highly fractured these days, along all kinds of lines, and this seems to have resulted in high levels of distrust across those lines - ideological, economic, racial, gender, and probably a host of others. This tends to push people into clusters where they all share the same ideological viewpoints, which is a depressing situation. My idea of a great party has always been one where a group…

> ... that sounds more like a military alliance between independent city-states in ancient Greece than your average human friendship.

It doesn't sound like your average friendship in modern atomized societies. But it seems that it was the bedrock for many societies throughout history, including close knit societies today. I've heard it argued fairly persuasively that this is why military insurgencies tend to be stronger in societies where kinship groups are fairly strong (and there's a strong possibility atomized societies wouldn't be able to follow suite).

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#84

Post by andreilys »

multiplegeorges wrote: post #36
yosito wrote: post #32

I clicked expecting to see some science-based research about what results in good friendships. Instead I found an opinion based listicle. Not necessarily a bad article for provoking thought, but definitely more opinion than fact. I recently went to cross cultural a meetup where friendship was the topic of discussion. One thing I realized is that people struggle to agree on a definition of friendship. There's an espec…

To call this a listicle is technically accurate, but does a large disservice to the experience of the author. She has conducted ~1000 interviews with friends to determine the content of the list. While this is not a peer-reviewed work, I would bet that her dataset and experience amounts to an easily publishable qualitative sociology/psychology paper.

If this is considered a publishable paper then the bar for that publication must be quite low.

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#85

Post by multiplegeorges »

ranjit_holmes wrote: post #78
multiplegeorges wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is. Someone can self-identify as a gender (among other things), alter their appearance to present as such, and a kind and empathetic society will (should) then regard them as such.

Quoted post unavailable.

Interesting, I didn't think any part of what I wrote would be seen as controversial.

> Someone can self-identify as a gender (among other things),

I do this everyday. It happens to match my biological sex, but it doesn't have to. This is probably what makes some people uncomfortable, but a biologically determined gender binary is hardly a universal human truth.

> alter their appearance to present as such,

We all alter our appearances to present in a way we find most useful, pleasing, or comforting. This doesn't seem controversial.

> and a kind and empathetic society will (should) then regard them as such.

I would hope that this part isn't controversial and would be something we all aspire to.

In contrast, I believe that the contexts you've provided (prisons, sports, locker rooms) have been demonstrated to be largely politically motivated controversies with very little real-world evidence for the claimed harms.

A similar situation exists for the medical claims. I believe you're alluding to medical interventions for gender reassignment for young trans people. There have been studies[1] showing that the interventions significantly lower suicidal ideation:

> "Among transgender adults in the United States who have wanted pubertal suppression, access to this treatment is associated with lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation." [1]

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#86

Post by strogonoff »

photochemsyn wrote: post #64

American society at least is highly fractured these days, along all kinds of lines, and this seems to have resulted in high levels of distrust across those lines - ideological, economic, racial, gender, and probably a host of others. This tends to push people into clusters where they all share the same ideological viewpoints, which is a depressing situation. My idea of a great party has always been one where a group…

Thinking about the word “fractured”, what turns merely holding different views and letting them inform each other in a friendly and fair competition into a fracture?

I suspect it comes down to fear and insecurity. When we distrust the other, being afraid that their gain is our loss and their agenda may hurt our (psychological, financial, etc.) security, we start acting erratically. Fear manifests itself as anger and contempt. We are not relaxed and watch every word they say for signs of pushing their agenda. We are torn between considering it beneath ourselves to spend effort arguing with them, and being unable to stay silent. We don’t know when are they themselves and when they represent their group.

You can truly enjoy friendship (and indeed love) if you are secure on some fundamental level, and I suspect it is a hard precondition.

I don’t know where I’m going with this. Maybe we should look into being more secure and relaxed? Pay heaps more attention to mental health, our own and our society’s? Learn to play non-zero-sum infinite games? Release some part of us from having to fight for survival if we are lucky to enjoy highest ever standards of living?

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#87

Post by pavel_lishin »

wruza wrote: post #56

A new friend could be waiting in the comments section of an article you’re reading, on the other side of a Google Doc, or in an elevator I loved talking to strangers in a slow-operating 20-story elevator. Surprisingly, they are good and friendly listeners. You don’t want to spend five minutes with someone you rejected, do you? My current home doesn’t have an elevator, but I hope the next one will.

As an introvert, your scenario is a nightmare to me. Please let me enjoy my elevator ride in peace.

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#88

Post by b3morales »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #74
1123581321 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people here also belong to other communities and code switch how they write.

It is an interesting comment in itself. Does HN ( and other online communities ) have their own peculiar jargon and it is used to identify in-group? I definitely noticed some recurring phrases, but it does not appear to be.. say.. as obvious as 4chan or imgur.

It's less jargon and more tone. Whereas a sarcastically snarky retort might fly on most forums, here it's more likely to net you downvotes. But the same content expressed without the sarcasm will be better-received.

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#89

Post by gretch »

notacoward wrote: post #12

Where there's a pattern there's a strategy. This is surely not the last word on the subject, and it's not meant as a how-to guide, but it's a thoughtful and well presented set of observations which people can use - if they wish - to increase their success rate at making friends. That seems like it's a good thing, worth a couple of minutes to think about.

Based on the principles in the article and some of my anecdotal life experiences: Take some adult classes or lessons.

It can be anything, as long as you are genuinely interested in it. You don't have to be "passionate" (no one goes from zero-to-passion instantly).

Drawing. Cooking. Tennis. Yoga. Video editing.

Chances are you can meet someone in the class that you vibe with and the routine of working together to make the best of the lesson is a good way to make a friend.

If you get along well, try to convert to a friendship outside of the classroom by inviting them to get a smoothie afterward.

Re: Forces that fuel friendship

#90

Post by renewiltord »

geodel wrote: post #71
photochemsyn wrote: post #64

American society at least is highly fractured these days, along all kinds of lines, and this seems to have resulted in high levels of distrust across those lines - ideological, economic, racial, gender, and probably a host of others. This tends to push people into clusters where they all share the same ideological viewpoints, which is a depressing situation. My idea of a great party has always been one where a group…

Many good points here. Especially > Here's a related (novel?) concept: don't try to leverage friendships for personal economic gain, for access to a job, for growing your multi-level marketing business, etc. A little personal story - Many years back I was living with roommates and didn't have car. It would be easy way to ask for ride since office really couple of miles from home and really on the way of other guys co…

I actually disagree with this one. I think you should ask favours of and offer favours to your friends. It's part of the enmeshing of one's life with another. If they are willing, it shows intention and trust.
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