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Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

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Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#81

Post by tornato7 »

szundi wrote: post #59
tornato7 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All which can be learned through focus groups and internal feedback, no need to further confuse and frustrate your users.

After you have the engine running, the marginal cost of an A/B is probably smaller than a focus group test. So if you really believe in focus groups for the results and you are also ambitious enough - probably this means go for A/B. Disclaimer: just thinking, not knowing the costs

Definitely agree, though I think the point of this thread is we don’t know the “true cost” of A/B testing in terms of long-term lost user engagement.

Have we done an A/B test for A/B testing where we test A/B testing…

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#82

Post by retox »

LightG wrote: post #76

Someone just make an open source app store which solves this. Can't be trusted to these idiots / money-hungry project managers / behemoths * delete as appropriate * Sorry, maybe there is one but I've not investigated and it's .... rant time.

F-Droid is what you're asking for https://f-droid.org/en/packages/

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#83

Post by josephcsible »

maxerickson wrote: post #28

I don't remember, was the information contained in the permission similar to the information provided as data safety? https://play.google.com/store/apps/datasafety?id=com.google....

"Similar" is subjective, but there were a lot of permissions that definitely aren't listed there.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#84

Post by Groxx »

While it is much less of a concern with runtime permissions that are optional.... yeah, I greatly dislike this too.

In particular because not everything is a runtime permission. E.g. I like to know that [apk X] has no internet or file permissions at all - it rules out nearly all practical ways to leak your information. And google just keeps taking more and more steps to hide that information from me.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#85

Post by Groxx »

dblohm7 wrote: post #38

I still miss the good old days of Android when apps didn't automatically receive the internet permission. Now get off my lawn.

I've been running netguard for this reason, yeah. Many have no need for internet access.

As a bonus, the DNS-based adblocking works extremely well. Not perfect, but dramatically better than nothing at all.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#86

Post by Gigachad »

retox wrote: post #80
codethief wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Network access, for example

This change was when I stopped downloading from the Play store. Prior to that you could easily see that the compass or flashlight app you were going to install needed network access, something that set off alarm bells given the state of malware back then.

It was a bit of a pointless permission because literally every app requested it. The android permissions system very quickly fatigued users in to accepting everything. The new model is much better. Allow the user to actually deny the important permissions but just accept that network access is what apps do now.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#87

Post by LightG »

retox wrote: post #82
LightG wrote: post #76

Someone just make an open source app store which solves this. Can't be trusted to these idiots / money-hungry project managers / behemoths * delete as appropriate * Sorry, maybe there is one but I've not investigated and it's .... rant time.

F-Droid is what you're asking for https://f-droid.org/en/packages/

Thanks

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#88

Post by anonymousiam »

One of the things I really liked about the Android custom ROMs (Cyanogen, etc.) was that they allowed you to revoke some app permissions, but still run the app. Google will never allow users to choose because it conflicts with their own business (user data collection and targeted marketing).

Now they aren't even letting you know how much information the app collects until you download and install it.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#89

Post by kikokikokiko »

uranium wrote: post #77
kuschku wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Network access requires no user approval. The only place you could find it before granting it to an app was via the permissions list in the play store.

Same with "run at startup" and some other important ones; there's no way to deny it once installed.

This is why having a firewall installed is essential in every android phone. Afwall+ does the job. My phones are all rooted but if I'm not mistaken it works on non rooted phones as well.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#90

Post by mdp2021 »

kuschku wrote: post #75
mdp2021 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when network access is standard? Access to filesystem is not, use of hardware components but for display and speaker is not, internet access is not... Maybe you are referring to the exploitation of "intents" to exchange with networking enabled applications?

Network access requires no user approval. The only place you could find it before granting it to an app was via the permissions list in the play store.

Ok, let us clarify the matter a little.

An Android application requires "permissions" to do "anything past the basics"; permissions have to be declared in the "Manifest" file.

There are (simplifying) two main types of permissions: "normal"¹ and "dangerous, runtime"²; the former only need to be specified by the programmer in the Manifest; the latter also need direct confirmation from the user at a requester prompt.

This implies that "normal" permissions are granted by the user implicitly with the action of installing the application. Which means, that it is _quite important_ that the user sees the permissions list beforehand, before installation.

--

¹"Normal": BLUETOOTH, INTERNET, VIBRATE...

²"Dangerous": READ_CONTACTS, RECORD_AUDIO, SEND_SMS...

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