Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 320 posts

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#81

Post by brandonagr2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #36
colordrops wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as it didn't have this jerky stopping behavior before that.

Happens often on my Y, does not happen on my legacy S and X (circa 2018 and 2019) that are equipped with Continental radar front facing radar. I believe even current S and X vehicles are still getting radar installed, so Tesla is only being cheap on the 3 and Y to keep moving them at volume as a supply chain mitigation.

Tesla stopped putting radar units in new Model S/X in February this year.

https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#82

Post by tiahura »

majormunky wrote: post #12
jra101 wrote: post #5

This happens to me just using the adaptive cruise control, no Autopilot or FSD enabled and it's super annoying. Can happen on a completely empty road driving in a straight line.

My 2019 Subaru Crosstrek has adaptive cruise control, and i've had it hit the brakes pretty hard when there's nothing in the way. Luckily it doesn't happen often.

My Volvo does it once a year.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#83

Post by LegitShady »

standyro wrote: post #23
sane_stats_ wrote: post #4

An anecdote in a sea of data - My 2022 Model 3 had a pretty serious phantom braking problem until 2 or 3 software releases ago. Now it seems to be entirely resolved in my use case. For context, I drive 200-400 miles a week, 95% of which using autopilot on divided highways and well-marked two or four lane roads.

Seems like radar equipped cars had less issues and they've finally worked out some of the kinks with the vision only system.

he says he has a 2022 which is radar free.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#84

Post by ddoolin »

klyrs wrote: post #38
colordrops wrote: post #3

This is probably happening a lot more than the number of reports mentioned in the article indicates. It happens to me every other day in my Model 3. It's also not binary - sometimes it slows down more quickly than other times, or stops too suddenly when a car is stopped in front of you. Seems real easy to get rear-ended. I've only got autopilot, not FSD. It's very conservative. It always considers someone to be in fr…

I don't drive a Tesla, but my car is a newer model with "smart" cruise control. It freaks out whenever there's a slight curve in the road and there's a car in the next lane over. Do Teslas have the same issue?

This only happened to me in a Model S whenever it was cresting any kind of hill that it couldn't see over (which can be pretty minor rollers to big hills). It would usually start swerving to the right.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#85

Post by robonerd »

Robotbeat wrote: post #51
colordrops wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as it didn't have this jerky stopping behavior before that.

I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time. (& I really do think he believes that because he obsessed over the AI safety thing in the past in a way I think is unforced and a little silly and pretty cle…

> I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time.

Yes, that and his attitudes towards LIDAR seem like motivated reasoning / sour grapes. "LIDAR is too expensive to put in cars I'm selling today, therefore it isn't good anyway." (I can't reach the grapes, therefore they're sour and I didn't want them anyway.) Why else would he criticize LIDAR with inane arguments about LIDAR not being able to read street signs, as though anybody is suggesting LIDAR-only rather than LIDAR+Optical?

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#86

Post by TrevorJ »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #9
TrevorJ wrote: post #2

How much better than a human driver does a self-driving system need to be before we as a society will accept fully autonomous vehicles? That seems like the key question which we are spending very little effort trying to understand. Until we have a national conversation about this, I suspect self-driving will be an intractable problem.

> Until we have a national conversation about this, I suspect self-driving will be an intractable problem. I hate to be a pessimist, but I'm not sure "national conversations" are all that useful in the U.S. Consider the "national conversation" leading up to Obamacare. NPR (at least) reported on the known pros/cons of various national healthcare systems around the world. AFAIK some of them were simply better than what…

I think it's easy to be biased towards agreeing with your point here because failures are much more visible in this realm than the successes.

There's a whole host of things that we've 'worked out' on a national level. Schools, National Parks, Interstate Highway Systems, Fire Departments. All these things either didn't exist, or took hugely different forms only a couple generations ago, and now they are almost entirely accepted in their present form. We just don't think much about it now because this stuff is so accepted, even though at one point it was a whole big complicated thing that needed to get worked out and agreed on.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#87

Post by manmal »

paxys wrote: post #31
outworlder wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's... appalling. My 2019 Leaf has absolutely zero problems maintaining distance with adaptive cruise control, using the ancient technology formerly known as radar. It can somehow even see stationary vehicles, something I thought wasn't feasible.

Yeah, never had a problem with my Hyundai as well. It also does lane keep assist perfectly on the highway using just the front cameras.

My Hyundai doesn’t seem to recognize stationary objects though. Also, the seconds after a car has merged into my lane in front of me are scary - my car doesn’t immediately recognize the new situation.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#88

Post by KennyBlanken »

Robotbeat wrote: post #51
colordrops wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as it didn't have this jerky stopping behavior before that.

I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time. (& I really do think he believes that because he obsessed over the AI safety thing in the past in a way I think is unforced and a little silly and pretty cle…

I'm convinced they ditched radar because Musk wanted to make more money.

Sort of like how GM and Ford used to have actuaries work out the cost of a fuel tank that wouldn't incinerate the occupants in a crash vs legal settlement costs.

Except minus actuaries and instead just Musk figuring "Well I've gotten away with everything else, why not this as well?" and sadly being right.

From ignoring COVID health orders to flashing his dick to repeated stock manipulation to making billions in a company that stole people's money constantly "because we're not a bank", Musk hasn't faced any significant repercussions for anything immoral or illegal he's ever done.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#89

Post by toomuchtodo »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #81
toomuchtodo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens often on my Y, does not happen on my legacy S and X (circa 2018 and 2019) that are equipped with Continental radar front facing radar. I believe even current S and X vehicles are still getting radar installed, so Tesla is only being cheap on the 3 and Y to keep moving them at volume as a supply chain mitigation.

Tesla stopped putting radar units in new Model S/X in February this year. https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision

My information is outdated, I appreciate the correction.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#90

Post by trhway »

pa7ch wrote: post #46
dotancohen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I've tried and failed to reproduce this on my Model 3. I've driven next to trucks, motorcycles, under overpasses, under very-low overpasses, near pedestrians, and even passed camels and horses on the side of the road. No phantom braking. That said, when using the lane-assist, I do prefer to keep my foot on the accelerator pedal anyway. To increase range, I try not to get into regen at all unless…

Agreed this always bothered me about cruise control as well. Particularly for electric cars I am wishing for a dedicated physical toggle or slider to instantly disable or dial-back regen for the times I want to coast.

Regen in Prius managed by your foot pressure on brake pedal. I wonder why would anybody do it differently.
Post reply on HN