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California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

drought.ca.gov

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Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#81

Post by kolanos »

rmah wrote: post #57
jillesvangurp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either way, Californians should stop pretending water is cheap, plentiful or sourced in a sustainable way. It simply isn't. Instead of pointing fingers at each other, the best way is to price it accordingly. The root problem is that this is not the case and it's too cheap. And it's only cheap because it comes from non renewable sources that are getting scarcer. Everybody feels entitled to the cheap water and then end…

Um, but the water in California is cheap and plentiful. Sustainably sourced, I don't know. But the root of the problem is that farmers do not pay a "fair" price, they get steep steep discounts. All the lawn watering, all the toilet flushes, all the swimming pools, etc. all amount to around 10% of water use in California. And those people already pay, on average, many multiples of what farmers pay per gallon.

This might just be me, but I prioritize agriculture over swimming pools.

It's strange that it is agriculture to blame when LA doesn't source its own water and instead diverts water from the central valleys away from agriculture. Agriculture doesn't "pay their fair share", yet LA is actively taking water away from agriculture and also draining 5-7 year reservoirs. When wild fires are in full swing we're going to really regret not having those reservoirs. [0]

Most farms have had their water share cut to zero already. [1]

People would rather waste water on LA lawns and swimming pools (or dump it in the Pacific, which is what happens to most of it that reaches LA [2]) rather than produce food with it. This is just baffling to me.

[0]: https://californiaglobe.com/articles/ca-reservoirs-filled-to... [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/23/rain-califor... [2]: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-rainwater-lost-wet...

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#82

Post by rayiner »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #66
Retric wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is “74.2% Jewish, 17.8% Muslim, 2.0% Christian, and 1.6% Druze. The remaining 4.4% included faiths such as Samaritanism and Baháʼí as well as "religiously unclassified", the category for all who do not belong to one of the recognized communities.” So, it arguably has more religious diversity than the US. The US is largely Christian with no other religion making up more than 2% of the population.

It depends how you view religion. "The Pew Religious Landscape survey reported that as of 2014, 22.8% of the American population is religiously unaffiliated, atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the US population." [1] Probably the largest unrepresented population in US government, running as an atheist is still considered political suicide. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

America is so religious that a majority of agnostics and 20% of atheists believe in a higher power: https://www.pewforum.org/?attachment_id=29652

But you’re correct that there’s different definitions of “religion” at play. As a foreigner, my observation has been that even secular Americans have internalized much of the belief system of Christianity.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#83

Post by jcranmer »

joenathanone wrote: post #54
wudangmonk wrote: post #5

What is the tactic here? we know the cause is agriculture and blaming grass lawns and car washing can easily be disproven by a quick superficial google search. Pitting people against each other by being water snitches may work unless any actual restrictions are placed. As soon as any restrictions are placed, the whole show gets exposed. So...what is the whole point of the show in the first place?.

I can think of three possibilities(there easily could be more) 1. There are contracts in place that cannot be broken. 2. Money comes first, then life and limb. 3. Restrictions on agriculture use will lead to higher food prices, and this is considered the lesser evil.

4. Farmers are historically a cossetted political class that politicians are rarely wont to cross.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#84

Post by dcsommer »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #43
timst4 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is a big factor. Water is too cheap - similar to carbon. Both need to be priced higher soon or we’re toast.

Since when has raising the price of anything changed anyone’s behavior? Oh you mean change the behavior of the poor, not the rich. Gotcha.

Sugar taxes are effective in decreasing consumption of sugary beverages. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drink_tax

Progressive pricing of water for larger consumers helps alleviate impact on the poor.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#85

Post by peyton »

paulcole wrote: post #42
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone focus’s on 1% of the problem and never touch the 99%, the former is going to get frustrated and give up.

If everybody doesn’t treat climate change as a problem that they’re both the cause of and solution to, we’re never going to touch the 99%. You think these corporations are growing almonds in the desert and raising cows because nobody buys them?

We’ve had fifty years of behavior change messaging. It’s time to take a different approach.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#86

Post by KSteffensen »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #46
jjoonathan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes it is. Try and think a couple steps ahead. The system we live under only works because people believe in it and more or less voluntarily play by the rules. Feel free to undermine state legitimacy but know that this will result in more entities (and it will be the more powerful ones first, BigCo, city governments, etc) thumbing their nose at the state and engaging in short sighted behavior. If CA isn't gonna honor…

The solid legal foundation needs to take physical reality into account. Sure, if previous legal agreements did not account for reality, somebody needs to own up to that, cancel the previous agreements openly while sucking up the relevant penalties. However, if this doesn't happen, physical reality will eventually assert itself over legal agreements.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#87

Post by tzs »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #58
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when has raising the price of anything changed anyone’s behavior? Oh you mean change the behavior of the poor, not the rich. Gotcha.

Obviously there are progressive ways to do it. You make it tiered such that the the typical household never leaves the lowest pricing tier. Golf courses, cattle ranchers and almond farmers on the other hand....

So you don't raise the price of water for typical households, which is only a small percentage of their budget, and instead raise the price of food, which is generally a much larger percentage of their budget?

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#88

Post by scruple »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #55
orlp wrote: post #2

"Californians are being asked to reduce their water use by 15 percent over 2020 levels to protect water reserves and help maintain critical flows for fish and wildlife wherever possible." And by that they surely mean agriculture, right? Right? The industry responsible for 80% of the water usage in California? They surely couldn't just be asking urban consumers to reduce? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/2…

During the last big drought year in California (was it 2015 or so?) we turned our lawn into a drought-tolerant one — no more grass, no more watering the lawn. It was a little annoying to see the lush golf courses carry on with business (literally) as usual.

Golf courses use reclaimed water. There are a lot of things wrong with golf courses in California, like pesticide and herbicide use that runs off into the ocean and other water ways, but fresh water waste isn't typically one of them.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#89

Post by kolanos »

wudangmonk wrote: post #5

What is the tactic here? we know the cause is agriculture and blaming grass lawns and car washing can easily be disproven by a quick superficial google search. Pitting people against each other by being water snitches may work unless any actual restrictions are placed. As soon as any restrictions are placed, the whole show gets exposed. So...what is the whole point of the show in the first place?.

> we know the cause is agriculture and blaming grass lawns and car washing can easily be disproven

Agriculture is where your food comes from. Unless you're eating your lawn? 40% of the water going to food production is precisely where it should go. Mass starvation is bad.

Re: California Drought Update May 2022 [pdf]

#90

Post by nradov »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #32
bamboozled wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! It's also why I don't like being told to stop eating beef / meat to stop the climate crisis when fracking and other ridiculous practices are still legal. Food and nutrition is important. Disclaimer: I tried being a vegetarian for 2 years, I didn't feel good mentally and physically so I went back to consuming meat. I'll probably try again another time.

Is there actually fracking in California?

Yes there is some fracking now but the state government has stated that they will stop issuing new permits for it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/04/23/governor-newsom-takes-acti...

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