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Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

nature.com

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Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#81

Post by ianai »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #44
encoderer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have taken both jnj and Moderna. But I have to admit that the grandparent has a point. It feels it’s almost heretical to say, but the vaccines were terribly over-sold. In the beginning they were sold as traditional vaccines - prevention against infection not just serious disease. But very soon we saw “breakthrough infections” (not even written about anymore as they are so common) and the goal posts started being mo…

The virus mutated and became more resistant, nobody should have to explain that to a grown-ass adult. The General Public deserves an F for civic-mindedness, being able to ascertain good sources of information on the internet, and scientific literacy. It's a miracle the vaccines were available as soon they were and it prevent hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths globally. And you are mad about 3rd party mar…

What do you figure is coming?

It sort of seems we now have more tame variants than the first several, at least. This news about long term effects even after vaccination is pretty concerning, though.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#82

Post by robonerd »

vorpalhex wrote: post #69
ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #58

Is there any evidence that "long covid" is actually a thing?

People definitely report it and genuinely believe they have it.. but similar problems occur in a small subset of all people who recover from infectious diseases. So it may not be covid specific but it does seem to exist and with a wide ranging illness such as covid then obviously more overall people have it than from say pneumonia.

> People definitely report it and genuinely believe they have it..

This alone is not convincing, since hypochondriacs have never been rare in the first place and for the past few years have been encouraged and doubtlessly felt very vindicated.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#83

Post by notahacker »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #53
croes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same some people claimed for sportmen especially footballers but the statistics of e.g. FIFA showed the opposite. People only pay more attention to.

Without drawing any conclusions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballer... There were a lot more sudden deaths in football in 2021 than in any other year. Could be: 1. Increased sudden heart failure due to Covid 2. Increased sudden heart failure due to vaccines 3. No increase in sudden heart failure, but in 2021 we observed and catalogued cases more meticulously than ever 4. Something else, un…

> There were a lot more sudden deaths in football in 2021 than in any other year.

That's a claim not supported by your link. Recency bias (and perhaps a greater media and Wiki-editing focus following a player suffering non-fatal cardiac arrest on the pitch in the World Cup) means there are more listed names in 2021.

But the article also points out that FIFA investigated 617 deaths over a previous 5 year period, which implies far, far more deaths in regular years than itemised on Wikipedia...

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#84

Post by addled »

ipaddr wrote: post #57
Angostura wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either believe the statistics, or you don't - but your anecdata is meaningless. The excess mortality figures tell you need to know.

How do you subtract the number of deaths caused by the vaccine itself?

Then you can look at the excess deaths statistics from the time the pandemic started, but before vaccines became available.

It paints a similar picture. A lot more people "than usual" dying in 2020 (before vaccines in US).

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#85

Post by r00fus »

californical wrote: post #74
ipaddr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The media wants you to believe that the vaccine protects against longterm covid. If it doesn't many people would skip the upcoming 4th, 5th, 6th round because it is providing no additional protection against the latest variants. But here is an actual study that goes against this story. Will you believe science or myth? Are there enough excuses to keep the myth alive?

Why does the media care if you get a 4th dose? How does it help them?

Pharma profits handsomely whenever government subsidizes more boosters.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#86

Post by spookthesunset »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #71
toolz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tissue fibrosis has been a leading factor and cause in mortality in developed nations far longer than covid has existed. Neither what you said or your parent said is false, but there does seem to be an awful lot of exaggerating the effects of covid.

COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0422-third-leading-... "For the second year, COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer." It is no exaggeration to say that COVID is a significant cause of death and threat to the health of the public. Only two things kill more people a year--heart disease and cancer. No…

> COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now

And yet two years into this I've yet to hear a solid answer to "is it 'died with' or 'died from'?" It's kind of funny that there is no answer to that because it dramatically changes how to interpret your figure.

All these "experts" just skirt right around that question and asking it gets you labeled as a horrible alt-right grandma killer (which isn't hyperbole either, I've literally been called this multiple times).

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#87

Post by blenderdt »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #58

Is there any evidence that "long covid" is actually a thing?

No and yes. Long covid is nothing special. All virus infections can cause the same symptoms. The Epstein-Barr virus for example can make people tired for months.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#88

Post by qbasic_forever »

spookthesunset wrote: post #70
qbasic_forever wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID virus spike protein attaches directly to ACE2 receptors which are found all over the blood vessels in the body. It is uniquely evolved to target and damage the vascular system in the body. edit: And people ARE tracking things like flu vs. COVID statistics. So far COVID-19 is roughly 10x as deadly as a bad flu year. Ten times...

> It is uniquely evolved to target and damage the vascular system in the body. There is so much panic, hysteria and just mythos around covid that I have a hard time believing this. Calling this thing "novel" gave some of these experts a hell of a lot of artistic liberty in how they describe covid. > And people ARE tracking things like flu vs. COVID statistics. So far COVID-19 is roughly 10x as deadly as a bad flu yea…

First you say "we should compare COVID to the flu" and now you say "look there's no way you can compare COVID to the flu". And then top it all off with the classic, "well you just can't trust any science in the last two years".

You clearly are not arguing in good faith or of sound mind.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#89

Post by ipaddr »

SeanLuke wrote: post #10
baisq wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

In what universe would getting vaccinated be getting conned? It's the smartest thing you could have done. AFAIK covid vaccines are not connected with heart issues beyond rather rare and generally mild cases of myocarditis, but getting covid is strongly connected to heart problems.

A world where the public was told getting this one vaccine will prevent you from getting covid and everything can go back to normal if 70%,80%,90% take it so pressure others.

Mysterious heart problems are being reported after the vaccine and those mild cases can persist months/years. Not rarely.. unexpectedly often.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#90

Post by spookthesunset »

johndfsgdgdfg wrote: post #37
tpmx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developed countries tend to maintain rigorous public statistics on causes of death. There is no reason to fall back to anecdata. If you're paranoid that your particular country is manipulating data, look at some other developed country's data.

I live in Ontario, Canada. For a long period of time the province reported deaths _with_ COVID, not necessarily deaths _because of_ COVID [1]. So when public health officials and the govts do stuffs like this, I cannot blame people when they are skpetic of COVID data. [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-is-changing-how-it-report...

It's funny how two years into this we have absolutely no solid answer to "with" vs "from". You'd think these "experts" would realize how absolutely critical it is to know the difference because you'll get a dramatically different picture of covid depending on which way you measure.

That so many of these "experts" dance around this question and shame the person asking it has made me very, very suspect of their motives.

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