Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 306 posts

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#81

Post by slyall »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #51
berkut wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEAT warheads (what NLAW has) is completely to do with shaped charges.

Yes, but it is not how it is used in Ukraine. Quote: "Against tanks and other armoured vehicles, the overfly top attack (OTA) mode is used; the missile flies about one metre above the line of sight, detonating the warhead above the target's weaker top armour". It has dual-mode: direct attack and OTA. The many tanks in Ukraine are killed in OTA, that does not use the shaped charge effect.

The overflight mode still uses a shaped charge. Even the top armour of a tank is significantly thick enough that a a non-directed explosion from a hand-held weapon probably won't penetrate.

"In conventional overflight missiles a keyhole effect resulting in reduced penetration into the target is caused by a shaped charge jet which develops during the missile flight. The MBT LAW warhead, similar to the BILL 2 missile warhead, incorporates a dynamically compensated shaped and copper lined charge to retain the penetration characteristics."

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/mbt_law/

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#82

Post by nradov »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #36
Vladimof wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that's how Ukraine killed so many tanks

My understanding is that it’s poor design, storing ammunition in a ring within the turret which turns out is a poor location from an integrity perspective. The “Jack in the box” vulnerability. > The fault is related to the way many Russian tanks hold and load ammunition. In these tanks, including the T-72, the Soviet-designed vehicle that has seen wide use in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, shells are all placed in a r…

This Chinese TV news video shows a wild example of the Jack-in-the-box vulnerability. A Russian tank in Ukraine gets hit and the turret takes off like it's headed for orbit.

https://youtu.be/ZsiHlmJ9myg

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#83

Post by fortran77 »

giantg2 wrote: post #7

If you're going to play around with explosives, an old knowledgeable teacher is best. I imagine incompetence gets weeded out early. The guy in the video has been in quite a few others too. It's fun to see how the hosts are usually a little nervous and he's calm as can be.

And he still has 10 fingers! Unlike, for example, Mark Pauline (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pauline)

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#84

Post by [deleted] »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #51
berkut wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEAT warheads (what NLAW has) is completely to do with shaped charges.

Yes, but it is not how it is used in Ukraine. Quote: "Against tanks and other armoured vehicles, the overfly top attack (OTA) mode is used; the missile flies about one metre above the line of sight, detonating the warhead above the target's weaker top armour". It has dual-mode: direct attack and OTA. The many tanks in Ukraine are killed in OTA, that does not use the shaped charge effect.

[deleted]

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#85

Post by secondcoming »

a9h74j wrote: post #62
ChuckMcM wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you have just described the AeroEnvironment Switchblade 600 drone. According to Drive they haven't actually been deployed in Ukraine yet but they are on the list apparently. The smaller 300 has been deployed apparently but it doesn't carry a shaped charge, instead it carries an antipersonnel charge. More of a flying hand grenade kind of deal.

It's all fun and games until you realize your country has no deniability about being at war with Russia.

The CIA gave stinger missiles to the Taliban when the Soviets were in Afghanistan. The Russians gave military hardware to the North Vietnamese when the USA was there.

Arming your enemy's enemy is nothing new.

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#86

Post by jltsiren »

londons_explore wrote: post #6

This is just a few dollars worth of copper and explosives. Attach it to a few tens of dollars worth of drone. (The cheapest drones are under 10 dollars now). A country could release 1000 of these and direct them at any military target, and they'll do massive amounts of damage at very low costs. Most anti-drone defences can be defeated simply with a redesign of the drone (eg. Use UWB for Comms, and have dual gyros and…

Drones are effective, but nothing is ever cheap on the battlefield. While the warhead that ultimately kills the target is often cheap, the real cost comes from the system that picks the right target and delivers the warhead there at the right time.

Cheap commercial drones have a short range. In order to use them effectively on the battlefield, each drone needs an operator, who must also be on the battlefield. Those operators then need other people for watching their backs, coordinating their actions, and handling the logistics. Those 1000 cheap simultaneously launched drones are now an entire brigade on the battlefield, which is definitely not cheap.

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#87

Post by fortran77 »

daenz wrote: post #56
Nextgrid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waterjet cutting uses water to propel a powder which acts as an abrasive, like an infinite stream of sandpaper. I don't think water by itself will achieve much.

Sounds like pressure washing vs sand blasting. Only difference between the two (aside from drastically different effect) is sand blasting has an intake tube to suck sand into the water jet.

People have made DIY waterjet cutters with pressure washers and a sand feeder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg__B6Ca3jc

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#88

Post by BurningFrog »

davesque wrote: post #49
daenz wrote: post #16

I'm not sure I fully understood the explanation. So the copper cone is turned inside out and turns into a pointed wire that drives into the target? How is it that this wire can continue through the 1ft of steel? Is the force of the explosion flowing through this wire/tube, like liquid in a straw? And somehow it can sustain this through 1ft of steel?

Here's a vid I found that seems to show a simulation of the effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpVVGk2OfQQ

Aha!

So the shape is such that all parts of the cone converge at the center, so the full energy of the explosive is focused in that thin column.

Re: Shaped Charges – Sheet of copper going through 1ft of solid steel (2010) [video]

#89

Post by nabla9 »

daenz wrote: post #16

I'm not sure I fully understood the explanation. So the copper cone is turned inside out and turns into a pointed wire that drives into the target? How is it that this wire can continue through the 1ft of steel? Is the force of the explosion flowing through this wire/tube, like liquid in a straw? And somehow it can sustain this through 1ft of steel?

The velocity of the jet is typically around 10 km/s. There is enough pressure to get trough.
Post reply on HN