I'm not convinced this fallacy really exists. It's not hard to observe that a coffeeshop is a hectic place that makes its meager profits one latte at a time.
The coffeeshop fallacy
81–90 of 99 posts
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
also, i don't think software is viewed as a "high-prestige" profession. It really depends on where in the world you are.
i don't know about other countries, but being a software developer is not high-status anywhere in the united states. i lived many years in sf and mountain view. even there, being a "product manager" is higher status than "software developer" or "engineer".
Higher status, but often paid less.
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#83Without taking anything away from the article, it's worth noting that running a software business absolutely can provide one with a great lifestyle. More so than pretty much any other profession I can think of. The lifestyle I wanted: pretty much as close to zero required work as possible, the ability to do said negligible work from anywhere I feel like parking myself (preferably with good rock climbing), enough mone…
"So yeah, set your goals right and you'll find you've chosen the one industry where you really can own that coffeeshop."
So there's an interesting idea... Lots of startups start up in coffee shops, at least occasionally overstaying their welcome (from the coffee shop owners point of view). It probably wouldn't be _too_ much of a stretch for a talented developer/consultant to back a $200k investment in return for "office space" for him and his cofounders/employees...
(In much the same philosophy as Starbucks "3rd place" style of business)
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#84Maslow [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslows_hierarchy_of_needs ] would disagree with the fundamental premise of this post.
dusklight - thanks for being the catalyst for making us provide an instructional splash page... check out the new bubble.ly (may have to refresh)
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
patio11's answers are cute, but if you say things like that you'll probably just end up defending yourself against people's misinterpretations. "So you're a teacher?" or "You mean like a security guard?" I think the best approach is a middle ground, rather than say what you are, or what the ultimate result is, just say what you _do_. "I build websites" or "I build iphone applications" or "I run servers and networks"…
His cute answer is safer than mine, which is "I rob banks." You need to internalize something about marketing. When Patrick says, "I helped 2 million kids learn how to read", he has framed the conversation in terms of the value proposition he wants to talk about. Statistically speaking, "nobody" cares about websites and iPhone applications. Moreover, virtually nobody --- even practitioners --- can tell the difference…
Oh I'm not saying that those answers don't have their place. When you're at a bar or some industry event or chatting with someone in a compatible professional environment, sure.
I guess I was thinking more in line with the last person who asked me this a few days ago: the 52 year old no-nonsense guy carrying a 10 year old nokia who just painted my bedroom. "I helped 2 million kids learn how to read" would have gotten me an eyeroll and a handful more drips left behind. "I build websites" got us on a conversation on how he wants to start a youtube show with his hunting exploits.
Framing the conversation is important, but knowing your audience is just as much so :)
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#86This is similar to what was around in the 80's with corporate people and owning a Bed and Breakfast. Many wanted to get away from the stress of corporate america and traded it for owning a B&B in the country. What they found was that running a B&B was obviously much different then staying there as a guest. "The 1980's was the ideal time when everybody wanted to own an inn, thanks to Bob Newhart," she said. referring…
I know a guy who was a broker on Wall Street throughout the 80's and 90's... He retired to take over the family farm, the sort of thing a lot of his peers wanted to do, and after 10 years of working non-stop to almost-not-quite break-even he's almost ready to sell it.
He says that he had no idea how much harder than working on Wall Street it would be. He's got to know everything about the domain, he's got to know accounting, sales, marketing, and just about every other aspect of running a business and it is exhausting for such small potential gains.
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
i don't know about other countries, but being a software developer is not high-status anywhere in the united states. i lived many years in sf and mountain view. even there, being a "product manager" is higher status than "software developer" or "engineer".
Higher status, but often paid less.
Sometimes, not often.
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#88This all seems at odds with the Ira Glass quote that makes its rounds here:
Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.
You don't have taste in something you're not passionate about, and you likely won't keep it for long after that passion wanes. You won't know that you've made a good cafe unless you care about coffee. You might not like accounting or mopping but you'll tolerate the grind only to the extent you care about what you're doing.
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been thinking about this. Saying "I'm a software developer" just doesn't communicate what I do, even though programming is... well, what I do. Thanks for reframing the problem succinctly. You thought about this, so how do you describe your profession?
patio11's answers are cute, but if you say things like that you'll probably just end up defending yourself against people's misinterpretations. "So you're a teacher?" or "You mean like a security guard?" I think the best approach is a middle ground, rather than say what you are, or what the ultimate result is, just say what you _do_. "I build websites" or "I build iphone applications" or "I run servers and networks"…
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but those lines don't sound cute, they sound like lies. At a minimum, they're embellishments. I don't understand this need to force people to know how valuable you are.
There are two ways to make people value you: 1) create value, or 2) create the perception of value.
Going around saying "I help 2 million kids to read" sounds like the latter. If you really did help 2 million children to read, and I'm not talking about putting a few words in front of them, but actually having a material impact on literacy levels of 2 million children, then I think your achievements would speak for themselves.
And software developers that make millions for a company in a weekend? Please. Not impossible, but I doubt that people who actually do this need to say it.
Re: The coffeeshop fallacy
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
also, i don't think software is viewed as a "high-prestige" profession. It really depends on where in the world you are.
i don't know about other countries, but being a software developer is not high-status anywhere in the united states. i lived many years in sf and mountain view. even there, being a "product manager" is higher status than "software developer" or "engineer".
It is considered quite high prestige in Israel (as does working in high-tech/engineering in general).