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Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

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Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#81
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an overreach, trolleybuses work surprisingly well at the moment. Lighter, much, much cheaper, less electricity required. And you need less of them. Metro, trams, trolleybuses should be used primarily and then you can add electric buses for gaps. That would make sense, not trying to go straight for the most expensive and wasteful option.

How can they be cheaper? You still need to install all the overhead wiresm this only works if you assume they the routes never change. And will require an absurdly huge initial investment. Might be better/cheaper to just see if batteries get better or if more quick charge points can he installed.

The vehicules are have less components thus are both cheaper upfront and cheaper on at operation by being lighter and requiring less maintainance. Because of that they are on average bigger so you can have a smaller fleet. Also installing overhead cables isn't such a big investment (in the face of related urban investment needed anyway like road maintainance, street furnitures and traffic/lanes shaping). Remember that tons of cities install christmas decorations with similar overhead wires just for one month every year.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#83

"By 2023, almost all buses in Oslo [Norway] will be electric": https://norwaytoday.info/news/by-2023-almost-all-buses-in-os...

The Scandinavians are doing a good job of being ahead of us environmentally. Probably only behind China in electric bus adoption.

They are all made by Chinese companies, at least in Denmark, which makes me sad. Whatever you think of China, and my politics on the subject are obvious, my biggest reservation isn't that they are produced by an authoritarian regime but that Europe's own carmaking industry wasn't tapped. Over the long-term, this weakens our domestic manufacturing capacity and our political negotiation posture, which should be stunningly obvious by the example of the US yet once again the EU has demonstrated optics only for the short-term (see Germany's near-total dependence on Russian gas).

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#85
post #48

Don't take this as an indictment of all electric buses. London has over 500 electric buses (out of 9,000). A lot of the buses in my neighborhood are the new electric double-decker ones and it's extremely nice. They are quieter, run smoother, don't polute the air, and have cool features like USB charging at every seat. It is like riding in a Tesla - just an obviously better bus experience. It will just take some time…

Electric buses are not a new hip thing, we have had electric buses since forever. It's called a trolleybus. At the moment its in every way superior to batteries.

Superior in every way except for massive infrastructure costs, unsightly wires or rails, and fixed routes, I suppose.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#86
post #48

Don't take this as an indictment of all electric buses. London has over 500 electric buses (out of 9,000). A lot of the buses in my neighborhood are the new electric double-decker ones and it's extremely nice. They are quieter, run smoother, don't polute the air, and have cool features like USB charging at every seat. It is like riding in a Tesla - just an obviously better bus experience. It will just take some time…

Electric buses are not a new hip thing, we have had electric buses since forever. It's called a trolleybus. At the moment its in every way superior to batteries.

No. I live in a city with wires but many buses go from the city into the surrounding areas. And to put up wires threw all the lower density areas where people live is just a bad idea.

Modern batteries can go for decades.

A battery based system is far more flexible, you can uses buses all over the place and dynamically adjust routes based on demand.

Overhead wires are also significantly ugly to have in a city.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#87
post #75

Don't take this as an indictment of all electric buses. London has over 500 electric buses (out of 9,000). A lot of the buses in my neighborhood are the new electric double-decker ones and it's extremely nice. They are quieter, run smoother, don't polute the air, and have cool features like USB charging at every seat. It is like riding in a Tesla - just an obviously better bus experience. It will just take some time…

> don't polute the air It does pollute the air, but not at the same place (where the energy is produced) and not where the bus is running (in town)

Polluted air in high density city environments is far more damaging to far more people.

And much of the energy can come from renewables or whatever energy is available for cheap at night.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#88
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better: trams and light rail. Smoother ride and no particulate from tyres.

Electric wire bus is better than tram as it does not require expensive tracks. It is also much easier to change the route. The tracks also create a lot of noise and vibration that gets into nearby buildings. Tracks are also dangerous for bicycles, and slippery for cars and trams. There might be benefits with trams, but I do not know what.

> expensive tracks

Trams and trains are incredibly energy efficient even with heavy loads because of that.

In the long term their TCO wins.

> Tracks are also dangerous for bicycles, and slippery for cars and trams

Not really. Besides, bicycles should have their lanes anyways.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#89
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they be cheaper? You still need to install all the overhead wiresm this only works if you assume they the routes never change. And will require an absurdly huge initial investment. Might be better/cheaper to just see if batteries get better or if more quick charge points can he installed.

The vehicules are have less components thus are both cheaper upfront and cheaper on at operation by being lighter and requiring less maintainance. Because of that they are on average bigger so you can have a smaller fleet. Also installing overhead cables isn't such a big investment (in the face of related urban investment needed anyway like road maintainance, street furnitures and traffic/lanes shaping). Remember tha…

I wonder how many more passengers a trolley bus can carry, compared to a battery powered bus of the same size

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#90
post #85
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric buses are not a new hip thing, we have had electric buses since forever. It's called a trolleybus. At the moment its in every way superior to batteries.

Superior in every way except for massive infrastructure costs, unsightly wires or rails, and fixed routes, I suppose.

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