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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#81

Hard profession but one of the last things to be automated imo, guaranteed income for next 30-40 years. Don't think you can say the same about certain types of doctors for instance.

Nursing won't be automated soon, but automated systems will be used for things that nurses used to do (with predictably worse results).

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#82
post #64
post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> 2. Patients in COVID have become downright mean. Add this to the problems nurses have management and doctors (who are often rude and arrogant) and it's a poor culture. The quality of the environment, from a mental health standpoint, is on the decline. Mean customers, and rude coworkers? I sympathize, but this is a reality in a lot of industries. I have no reason to believe that healthcare here is worse than average…

People who are sick, in pain, or possibly dying might be slightly less emotionally regulated than your typical customer.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#83

Most people work for money so I would take all this with a grain of salt. If you are a RN what are you going to do if not nursing? The same applies to all fields including Physicians.

Whether or not any particular nurse follows through with thoughts of quitting, all else being equal I think we want nurses who enjoy and want to stay being nurses rather than nurses who are thinking about quitting. Nurses who are happy provide better care than nurses who are so unhappy they want to quit.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#84
post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

I'm friends with quite a few nurses, primarily travel nurses, and not a single one is considering a change in career that I am aware of. Simply an anecdotal counterpoint and nothing more.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#85
post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

Insurance companies. Everything is controlled by insurance companies. You can’t do anything unless it’s exactly how insurance wants and only for what insurance will pay. It limits everything, including how every profession can be compensated simply because you can’t easily hire somebody for more than what insurance will pay for their services. You can, but the funds have to come from somewhere.

Insurance is the only industry where they agree to pay for something (in this case, "medical care"), but then after service has been rendered can decide to pay less, or not pay at all, or stop paying that provider altogether, etc. This combined with hospitals being run by non-physicians*, and people thinking being able to Google and read WebMD qualifies them to argue with their doctor about treatment plans**, healthcare in the US is going to absolute shit***.

* I strongly believe that only physicians should be running hospitals. Certainly not administrators whose only education is an MHA and only experience is working for for-profit health companies. Medical decisions need to be made outside of cost considerations. The only factors should be medical science, quality of life, and patient wishes (in that order).

** In stark contrast to asking questions and trying to understand. But I have family members who are the "look everything up and then try to tell my doctor how they're going to treat me" ilk and it's crazy.

*** I don't think the above points are unique to US healthcare other than cost considerations, but that's all I have experience with.*

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#86

Perhaps allowing modern MBAs to cost optimize most every single thing we do isn't the best way to assure mid and long term security and profitability.

Efficient systems are brittle systems. You wring all the slack out of it and any shock is going to cause failure. In this case, the slack is the nurses and other healthcare workers' mental health and burnout limits and pay and culture etc. etc. The slack is being pulled to lower costs and increase insurance/hospital profits.

It's unsurprising that what has happened in the past couple of years is putting stress on a system with the slack pulled out of it.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#87
post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

> lost their professional agency to do-nothing administrators

You just summarized the decline of Western civilization in one phrase.

This has happened almost everywhere and efforts to push back have proven extremely difficult. I personally place a lot of the blame on the educational system for overproducing administrative skill sets and underproducing practical skill sets. There is some role for those things of course but we have far too many people for the administrative roles we really need and far too few for many other professions. This combined with the tendency of people to recruit people like themselves has oversaturated the market with administrators looking for reasons to exist.

The rot is to the point that we have the spectacle of Elon Musk looking like superman. Why does he look like superman? Because he actually does things instead of having meetings to discuss the meeting schedule. He's just a reasonably competent engineer and business founder with huge resources who... does things... and this makes him look superhuman by comparison to the hordes of administrators that only discuss doing things and commission studies about hypothetically doing things.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#88

A family friend was talking to a doctor who was considering quitting. The reason why, at least for that doctor, wasn't really the stress from patients. It was all the damned paperwork and the stress that created.

Agreed. This article is so off the mark, trying to talk all the ways technology can help this problem without a single sentence retrospecting about any of the problems that shitty EMRs have caused or at least facilitated. The massive increase in charting, and the fact that nurses spend more time on CYA than providing care these days is the number one reason I've heard from nurses who are trying to get out. High patient-to-staff ratios is the second, which wouldn't be quite as bad if it weren't for all the charting.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#89
post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

The shift to EMRs (more-or-less forced by the ACA) has been a huge quality-of-life loss for doctors. Tons of time spent on Epic or Cerner checking boxes and selecting drop-downs.

Turned a "trusted professional" advisory role into a keyboard role.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#90
post #25

because the headline can never be "90% of nurses' employers fail their employees this year"

Well yeah, because it's reporting on a survery of nurses which included a question about whether they're considering leaving the profession.

I think your would be headline is a fair inference to come to, though not the sole cause.

With how over sensationalised our media is, can we avoid complaining when headlines actually directly match the thing they're reporting on for once?

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