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The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

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Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#81

Post by kinghtown »

zozbot234 wrote: post #72
ArtWomb wrote: post #37

“Psychedelics are to the study of the mind, what the microscope is to biology and the telescope is to astronomy” –Stanislas Grof. While it feels like an artifact from the future, Berkeley CSP is now formally certifying "facilitators". And its important to note, because the cure is the experience. Not the actual biochemistry. We know a lot about the botany and chemistry of these compounds. And we can actually map phen…

Meditation and mystical experiences can be pursued without any substance use at all. Psychedelics are merely a crutch, and one that ultimately limits our understanding and insight about these experiences.

I can’t help but feel you’ve never tried any? You can have out of body experiences across dimensions of awareness, speak to very strange beings, visit domed realms of self-revolving forms.. like just try and willpower that kind of thing next time you’re having a coffee.

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#82

Post by dr_dshiv »

neuroma wrote: post #78
dr_dshiv wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be deliberate and have fun. And always know that you will sober up. you are on drugs — you aren’t crazy — you will be fine — you didn’t break your brain.

Yeah sadly not always true. Some people go get lasting problems from certain drugs. They can provoke psychiatric deteriorations. Examples: potent cannabinoids, amphetamines, high dose psychedelics. Lots to be said about set, setting and underlying vulnerabilities. Still probably a healthy mantra to recite to anyone in the midst of overwhelm as most people a fine, and its a caring act.

My understanding is that people’s experiences can be toxic and ptsd producing—it isn’t the biological action of the drugs themselves (high dose amphetamines as the exception).

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#83

Post by zozbot234 »

kinghtown wrote: post #81
zozbot234 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meditation and mystical experiences can be pursued without any substance use at all. Psychedelics are merely a crutch, and one that ultimately limits our understanding and insight about these experiences.

I can’t help but feel you’ve never tried any? You can have out of body experiences across dimensions of awareness, speak to very strange beings, visit domed realms of self-revolving forms.. like just try and willpower that kind of thing next time you’re having a coffee.

All of these things are possible with a sustained combination of concentration and insight meditation. Not only that, but they're far more easily understood without the massive chaos factor of psychedelics.

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#84

Post by kinghtown »

zozbot234 wrote: post #83
kinghtown wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t help but feel you’ve never tried any? You can have out of body experiences across dimensions of awareness, speak to very strange beings, visit domed realms of self-revolving forms.. like just try and willpower that kind of thing next time you’re having a coffee.

All of these things are possible with a sustained combination of concentration and insight meditation. Not only that, but they're far more easily understood without the massive chaos factor of psychedelics.

Are you speaking from experience?

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#85

Post by yung_steezy »

biidthrowaway wrote: post #51

I have an extraordinarily rare mental/neurological issue called Body Integrity Dysphoria, which makes me want to be disabled (specifically paraplegic or to lose my legs.) I've had it since age six, and it's only gotten less bearable with time. All the meds and therapy I've tried have done nothing to help. I'm planning to try psychedelic psychotherapy to treat my BID. I doubt it will relieve the desires - it seems mor…

I would be concerned that psychedelics might add fuel to the fire in the case of body dysmorphia since one of their common effects is dissociation.

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#86

Post by neuroma »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #82
neuroma wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah sadly not always true. Some people go get lasting problems from certain drugs. They can provoke psychiatric deteriorations. Examples: potent cannabinoids, amphetamines, high dose psychedelics. Lots to be said about set, setting and underlying vulnerabilities. Still probably a healthy mantra to recite to anyone in the midst of overwhelm as most people a fine, and its a caring act.

My understanding is that people’s experiences can be toxic and ptsd producing—it isn’t the biological action of the drugs themselves (high dose amphetamines as the exception).

Are you invoking mind body dualism?

Or referring to the limits of modern biology?

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#87

Post by dr_dshiv »

neuroma wrote: post #86
dr_dshiv wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that people’s experiences can be toxic and ptsd producing—it isn’t the biological action of the drugs themselves (high dose amphetamines as the exception).

Are you invoking mind body dualism? Or referring to the limits of modern biology?

Both, I suppose. It comes down to why we have biology vs physics -- there are emergent phenomena that don't make sense to study only at the level of more reductive elements. Yes, chemistry is important in experience -- or taking chemicals wouldn't effect our experience. But we can clearly understand how an experience is psychologically damaging without haven't a clue as to its chemical underpinnings. And the point is that drug experiences can be damaging -- even if the drugs themselves are non-toxic.

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#88

Post by supertofu »

pmoriarty wrote: post #30
tomatowurst wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whew, ayahuasca is a whole different beast and frankly is frightens me and I don't think I ever want to be in a position where I do it. psilocybin's come up is frightening/anxiety/panic inducing as it is....I don't think I can ever jump over ayahuasca, that seems like a whole different animal. For me I feel like psilocybin "reset" my brain and there's some long lasting protection mechanism against depressive thinking…

Ayahuasca brews vary widely in composition, depending on who brews it. I'd be very wary of some self-styled shaman adding datura or some other nightshade plant to the brew (which is not unheard of), and that's something I definitely want to stay far, far away from. Unless I was brewing it myself I'd want nothing to do with it either, because I couldn't be sure of what I was getting.

With ayahuasca, it is critical to work with a knowledgeable plant medicine practitioner. The ceremony leader makes a huge difference in the experience. A very good plant medicine practitioner can control the tone of the entire experience for every single person. They can guide you into various emotional states through traditional Icaros or through nontraditional medicine songs, while ensuring that the ceremony setting remains psychologically safe for everyone. It's quite magical what a trained ayahascera/o can do to help navigate these mind states.

Conversely, an untrained or despotic ceremony leader can create an unsafe setting, and can lead vulnerable people right into psychotic-like states.

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#89

Post by jokowueu »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #75
jokowueu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For PTSD i recommend taking a look at stellate gangelion block https://youtu.be/nC2fBe6U7lg

There is no conclusive evidence of long-term benefits and SGB is not currently an established treatment.

Two shots in 5 years ago . PTSD free for 5 years

U don't have to do it forever. If it comes back take another shot

Re: The Psychedelic Experience: A new concept in psychotherapy (1962) [pdf]

#90

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

2fast4you wrote: post #73
dr_dshiv wrote: post #26

This is an incredible article. So beautifully and sensitively written. It is wonderful to know that the methods described here are just now becoming possible to enact legally. But damn. Here’s the rough schedule: 200 mcg LSD at 9am followed up an hour later by a full dose of mescaline and then 5 hours later a dose of amphetamine. At 5:30p they are sent home with a friend and given a sleeping pill. I’ve tried a lot, b…

What sleeping pill can knock you out after that day? LSD makes you WIRED for hours and hours. Same with amphetamine, but to a much lesser degree.

Usually after the visual effects of LSD have ceased you still can't fall asleep for a good 3-5hrs (or more, IME).

Benzodiazepines and similar drugs can stop acid trips almost completely in their tracks, allowing you to sleep. People also keep benzos on hand in case they have a bad trip - so they can stop the trip.

I would say, amphetaminnes can have you "wired" much more, but maybe for less time. But I don't think benzos can stop an amphetamine high as well as they stop LSD trips.

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