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Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

theverge.com

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Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#81

Post by SantalBlush »

bgro wrote: post #48
tjbiddle wrote: post #25

> “Dark patterns” — confusing or deceptive user interfaces designed to steer users into making certain choices — will be prohibited. The EU says that, as a rule, cancelling subscriptions should be as easy as signing up for them. This is an excellent addition.

Remember when Xbox let you sign up for Live online, but you had to do a 3 hour interrogation on the phone to cancel? And calls would cost like 25 cents a minute or something crazy. Or the auto renewing subscriptions that either cancel your service immediately the second you turn off auto renew, even if you paid for the current time allotment, or they just prevent or ignore your request to not renew. I feel like rever…

There's also this classic attempt at cancelling Comcast service. [1] What a nightmare.

[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUvpYE99vg

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#82

Post by jsnell »

einszwei wrote: post #62
tjbiddle wrote: post #25

> “Dark patterns” — confusing or deceptive user interfaces designed to steer users into making certain choices — will be prohibited. The EU says that, as a rule, cancelling subscriptions should be as easy as signing up for them. This is an excellent addition.

I am very tired of the cookie/tracking popups on many websites that don't have option to "reject all" but just "accept all" and "customise". Main example being Google Search. Looking at this, I am hopeful but not too optimistic.

From a couple of days ago: https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/new-cooki...

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#83

Post by haswell »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #59
lin83 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's attempts to get users to unwittingly sign up to Prime is one of the most egregious examples I encounter on a regular basis. As a European I cannot wait to see it gone.

If it's easy to accidentally sign up for something, does that mean it has to be easy to accidentally cancel something? Because that would be hilarious.

I’m imagining a scenario where you’re about to check out, and decide not to finish the transaction because you wanted to add something else to your very first.

So you click the cancel button.

Only you find out you’ve cancelled Prime.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#84

Post by psyc »

lin83 wrote: post #46
tjbiddle wrote: post #25

> “Dark patterns” — confusing or deceptive user interfaces designed to steer users into making certain choices — will be prohibited. The EU says that, as a rule, cancelling subscriptions should be as easy as signing up for them. This is an excellent addition.

Amazon's attempts to get users to unwittingly sign up to Prime is one of the most egregious examples I encounter on a regular basis. As a European I cannot wait to see it gone.

After the last iOS update, Apple nagged the shit out of me to setup Apple Pay, for two days. No way to say ‘fuck off’ - only ‘remind me’. No obvious way to stop the nagging. Finally I gave them just the tip, and then pulled out before the money shot, and that seems to have shut them up for now.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#85

Post by jamesrr39 »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #38
aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know it when I see it."

in common law systems I know it when I see it is good enough, but I believe most of EU is under a Napoleonic system where you should define what you mean.

Nitpick: most of it falls under the Civil law system, some of which is Napoleonic. Wikipedia has a pretty nice map of the breakdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)#/medi...

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#86

Post by nottorp »

einszwei wrote: post #62
tjbiddle wrote: post #25

> “Dark patterns” — confusing or deceptive user interfaces designed to steer users into making certain choices — will be prohibited. The EU says that, as a rule, cancelling subscriptions should be as easy as signing up for them. This is an excellent addition.

I am very tired of the cookie/tracking popups on many websites that don't have option to "reject all" but just "accept all" and "customise". Main example being Google Search. Looking at this, I am hopeful but not too optimistic.

> I am very tired of the cookie/tracking popups on many websites that don't have option to "reject all" but just "accept all" and "customise". Main example being Google Search.

And The Verge on this very article :)

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#87

Post by wrboyce »

psyc wrote: post #84
lin83 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's attempts to get users to unwittingly sign up to Prime is one of the most egregious examples I encounter on a regular basis. As a European I cannot wait to see it gone.

After the last iOS update, Apple nagged the shit out of me to setup Apple Pay, for two days. No way to say ‘fuck off’ - only ‘remind me’. No obvious way to stop the nagging. Finally I gave them just the tip, and then pulled out before the money shot, and that seems to have shut them up for now.

How is that even relevant? Your phone was trying to onboard you to a _free to use_ feature. If you can’t see the difference here, then I suspect there probably was a button labelled “fuck off” and you didn’t see that either. Honestly.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#88

Post by adam0c »

einszwei wrote: post #62
tjbiddle wrote: post #25

> “Dark patterns” — confusing or deceptive user interfaces designed to steer users into making certain choices — will be prohibited. The EU says that, as a rule, cancelling subscriptions should be as easy as signing up for them. This is an excellent addition.

I am very tired of the cookie/tracking popups on many websites that don't have option to "reject all" but just "accept all" and "customise". Main example being Google Search. Looking at this, I am hopeful but not too optimistic.

use a vpn, any incognito browser, stop using google. simple.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#89

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

Irishsteve wrote: post #8

The new regulation requires a hand-wavey style explanation i.e build a retrieval / ranking / matching algorithm that learns from customer clicks and considers blah blah. There will be no explanation of the actual algorithm.

Probability ranking principle will never not be the foundation for recommender systems. Any statistical model flowing from PRP will be more or less the same regardless of whether the architecture is neural, boosted trees, etc.

However, if regulation required companies to disclose all of the data goes into those models, how they acquire it (tracking browser/app behavior, purchase from 3rd parties), and so on, that would be the real game changer for consumer privacy and protection.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#90

Post by joe_guy »

wrboyce wrote: post #87
psyc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the last iOS update, Apple nagged the shit out of me to setup Apple Pay, for two days. No way to say ‘fuck off’ - only ‘remind me’. No obvious way to stop the nagging. Finally I gave them just the tip, and then pulled out before the money shot, and that seems to have shut them up for now.

How is that even relevant? Your phone was trying to onboard you to a _free to use_ feature. If you can’t see the difference here, then I suspect there probably was a button labelled “fuck off” and you didn’t see that either. Honestly.

Apple makes money off the interchange fee. It might be "free" to the end user, but the corporate motivation is the same as Prime's -- money.

And please don't ad hominem attack people you're responding to.

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