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Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

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Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Broken" is a stretch. It gives the only result that could be reasonably expected by anyone making that query in good faith. If you're genuinely expecting a result like "never," then I wonder, would you also expect a result of "never" for the query "When did Neal Armstrong set foot on the Moon?" (notice the misspelling of his name)

For instance I saw that many Russian generals had been killed during the war. I wondered how many Ukrainian generals had been killed over the same period. Still can't figure it out. Lots and lots of articles about dead Russian generals. There's got to be some way where the search engine doesn't second guess you. You can never find the answer to something adjacent to a popular question with the current state of things…

From google's point of view, it's not second guessing you. It just associates words it decides are similar. You'd probably accept results for "dead generals", "killed generals", or "killed commanders". To google, dead = killed, generals = commanders, Russian = Ukranian, and moon = mars. It will expand the meanings of words until it has a page full of results and ads to show you.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#82
post #54

The one thing I wish that Google offered would be the ability to blacklist sites for a period (coud be fixed - say 6 months). So damn annoying when the top search results all lead to shitty SEO-optimised sites that use a whole page to blather on and on, leading to a tiny information nugget at the end. No value, just excellent SEO scamming. As these scam artists get better and better at this, Google gets less and less…

A HOSTS file for search would be most welcome.

Google used to allow you to block individual domains right from the search UI. It was discontinued in 2011.

There are numerous extensions to block domains, like uBlacklist: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublacklist/pncfbmi... (not affiliated)

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#83
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions" I used to think this way too, but I've come to realize that Google has turned from a search engine that returns results based on my input to an answer engine that actively tries to reframe whatever I enter into some other more generic query - usually with the intent of selling me something or returning SEO spam. I've also found that the o…

Nowadays you should google using what in 2005 would be considered "the wrong way to search". Back then it was all about keywords, quotes and so on. For example if you wanted to know if dogs could eat apples you'd search: > dog apple dangerous Today you should search: > can dogs eat apples And you get way better results with the second form. I've noticed that people who are stuck thinking that the right way to google…

I could very well be biased, but the first example still seems more useful than the second.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dog%20apple%20dangerou...

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=can%20dogs%20eat%20app...

Also worth comparing (seems to focus more on diabetes than cyanoglycosides. Diabetes is the bigger chronic problem, and cyanoglycosides are the bigger acute problem, so which is a bigger danger largely depends on how disciplined the owner is.):

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+dangerous+about+feed...

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#84
post #54

The one thing I wish that Google offered would be the ability to blacklist sites for a period (coud be fixed - say 6 months). So damn annoying when the top search results all lead to shitty SEO-optimised sites that use a whole page to blather on and on, leading to a tiny information nugget at the end. No value, just excellent SEO scamming. As these scam artists get better and better at this, Google gets less and less…

This used to be a feature of Google Search. It then moved from the Google Account to Chrome. I'm not sure if it still exists in the Chrome browser. It can be done with addons but of course that doesn't feed back to Google.

It does surprise me that Google wouldn't want to capture this signal. Maybe it is too susceptible to abuse?

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#85
I mean, when you think about it, it's kind of obvious that an entity extracting revenue from selling advertisement impressions is not going to produce a very useful search engine — it's going to produce a search engine that maximises advertisement impressions. Either by encouraging the advertisers to game the search engine, or by simply preferring the paying advertisers' results, or both, on some level.

So you end up with a Google that prioritises 2-3 promoted results above actual search results (some of which represent the opposite of what you're looking for!) and everything beneath is either a massive mainstream content factory, a Reddit/SO/Quora thread, or any one of a billion terrible blogs/news hosts that contain no content or simply regurgitate someone else's content with adverts, modals, etc galore.

In fact, the only reason why Google's search engine is fairly safe in its product space — the considerable head start on potential disruptors notwithstanding — is that there apparently exists no comparably successful method to extract revenue from running a search engine.

Not that many people are realistically going to pay a monthly fee to have a Google without the noise, despite the amount of noise there is (I probably would). And let's face it, if there was a market for that, Google Premium would probably exist already. Talk about vertical integration if they did though. Help pollute the ocean of the internet then sell people premium membership to sail across it rather than swim in it.

One of the biggest things that Google did wrong was try to act as curator. The moment they start screening results by compliance with Google standards, introducing stuff like AMPHTML etc, anything like that is the moment they make themselves no different to Facebook, Twitter and every other walled garden community.

The internet is supposed to be about broadcasting information, about exploration and chasing the horizon — not locking information behind forced memberships of social networks and paywalls, tardis-like megastructures where you're encouraged to become locked in yourself.

All that should matter is that a webpage's content matches a query. Not whether their website matches some random person's idea of good UX etc. Does the content match the query. That's it. Refined obviously to assess whether a page's content is too insanely well matched (old SEO bullshit) and maybe include that domain rank stuff (if it was based on conversions so it's self-moderating rather than Google saying "[majorpublication].com is better than [randomblog].com because big business website > random person's website")

Google could have been worse, of course. AMPHTML is pretty much over, right? They track your data, yes — but show me the company that doesn't do that. Apple? Apple probably do, they just track less or whatever. Just because it's in the marketing doesn't necessarily mean that they don't do it, it just means that they know people will buy their shit if they say they don't, or make a point of doing it less.

I don't blame Google for the way their search engine has turned out. As others have said, a big part of it is the sheer amount of noise out there now. But more importantly, the way capitalism works causes most companies to produce increasingly shitty products over time. This eventually creates the opportunity for someone new to release a great product, and eventually their great product becomes a good product, and eventually that will become a shitty dividend-paying product, and the cycle will continue.

(to clarify, the opportunity isn't just there for competitors, the opportunity also exists for Google to sort their shit out too).

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#86

An interesting observation is that over the years, I've sort of found that if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions, or I'm not thinking about the problem the right way. For example, you come up with some weird programming idea to solve a problem and no results are found -- I'm almost always headed down the wrong path. This has been proved to me over and over again as sort of a can…

> For example, you come up with some (...) idea (...) and no results are found -- I'm almost always headed down the wrong path. And by that you mean, Google is telling you how to think, and that you should think in some way and not in some other way. I'm quite sure I am not comfortable with that.

And what do you do about this discomfort? Asking for a friend who is also uncomfortable with that "guidance".

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#87
For Python programming I would say 100% of the time you should look the answer up in the official manual for a well-defined problem (delete a file) because the manual is correct, well-written, etc. It's astonishing how often Google and Bing snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on queries like this.

If you go looking in splogs, spam overflow and other spam sites at best you are going to get wrong answers, at worse you will get answers that "aren't even wrong".

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#88

For Python programming I would say 100% of the time you should look the answer up in the official manual for a well-defined problem (delete a file) because the manual is correct, well-written, etc. It's astonishing how often Google and Bing snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on queries like this. If you go looking in splogs, spam overflow and other spam sites at best you are going to get wrong answers, at worse y…

I wish the python manual was the default search for function references too...

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#89
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"if there are not many good results, maybe I'm not asking the right questions" I used to think this way too, but I've come to realize that Google has turned from a search engine that returns results based on my input to an answer engine that actively tries to reframe whatever I enter into some other more generic query - usually with the intent of selling me something or returning SEO spam. I've also found that the o…

Nowadays you should google using what in 2005 would be considered "the wrong way to search". Back then it was all about keywords, quotes and so on. For example if you wanted to know if dogs could eat apples you'd search: > dog apple dangerous Today you should search: > can dogs eat apples And you get way better results with the second form. I've noticed that people who are stuck thinking that the right way to google…

Another thing for us on HN to note. This is how most people ask questions. It is not just that the other way is wrong - it is also less common.

Re: Three areas where Google Search lags behind competitors: code, cooking, travel

#90

For Python programming I would say 100% of the time you should look the answer up in the official manual for a well-defined problem (delete a file) because the manual is correct, well-written, etc. It's astonishing how often Google and Bing snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on queries like this. If you go looking in splogs, spam overflow and other spam sites at best you are going to get wrong answers, at worse y…

I agree yet in the article google is criticised for having the official docs as search result 1.

I guess I just want different results to the same query than the author

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