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Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#81

Post by strikelaserclaw »

kevsim wrote: post #39
notsag-hn wrote: post #32

I was going to interview at LandingAI. I was asked before the interview to install a spyware browser extension to monitor my traffic to detect if I was cheating during the interview. I respectfully declined and didn't have that interview.

Wow if you can “cheat” during an interview - meaning either that they’re asking trivial, google-able stuff or that they’re so bad at interviewing that they can’t tell if you actually know your stuff - then their hiring process is pretty bad.

i mean, people are good at finding clever ways to cheat.

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#82

Post by mFixman »

tablespoon wrote: post #77
kevsim wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow if you can “cheat” during an interview - meaning either that they’re asking trivial, google-able stuff or that they’re so bad at interviewing that they can’t tell if you actually know your stuff - then their hiring process is pretty bad.

> Wow if you can “cheat” during an interview - meaning either that they’re asking trivial, google-able stuff or that they’re so bad at interviewing that they can’t tell if you actually know your stuff - then their hiring process is pretty bad. Not necessarily, at least on the first point. Someone could be getting coached. A few years ago, a coworker of mine hired a contractor onto his team and was convinced the perso…

You cannot really prevent those kinds of cheats. Even if you use the most insidious spyware a coach can advice the interviewee from a different device.

The only way to prevent those kind of scams is to put all employees in probation for the first months of work and fire them if they don't perform, like it's common in the UK.

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#83

Post by deepdmistry »

tablespoon wrote: post #77
kevsim wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow if you can “cheat” during an interview - meaning either that they’re asking trivial, google-able stuff or that they’re so bad at interviewing that they can’t tell if you actually know your stuff - then their hiring process is pretty bad.

> Wow if you can “cheat” during an interview - meaning either that they’re asking trivial, google-able stuff or that they’re so bad at interviewing that they can’t tell if you actually know your stuff - then their hiring process is pretty bad. Not necessarily, at least on the first point. Someone could be getting coached. A few years ago, a coworker of mine hired a contractor onto his team and was convinced the perso…

I once heard where a dev literally offshored his work and had entire teams working on his tasks. He was employed by multiple companies at once and paid a small fraction of his combined pay to offshore team.

Eventually he got caught trying to manage all this

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#84

Post by propwash »

mFixman wrote: post #82
tablespoon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wow if you can “cheat” during an interview - meaning either that they’re asking trivial, google-able stuff or that they’re so bad at interviewing that they can’t tell if you actually know your stuff - then their hiring process is pretty bad. Not necessarily, at least on the first point. Someone could be getting coached. A few years ago, a coworker of mine hired a contractor onto his team and was convinced the perso…

You cannot really prevent those kinds of cheats. Even if you use the most insidious spyware a coach can advice the interviewee from a different device. The only way to prevent those kind of scams is to put all employees in probation for the first months of work and fire them if they don't perform, like it's common in the UK.

Agreed. Whenever I hear stories like this, I recall this recent essay [1] that said it quite well -

> designing a human process around pathological cases leads to processes that are themselves pathological

[1] - https://jacobian.org/2022/feb/14/that-wild-aam-story/

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#85

Post by mdp2021 »

kevinventullo wrote: post #79
mdp2021 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd just note that if pushed by circumstances (if one was willing to be interviewed in spite of their ways), the interview environment could be (would be) on a throwaway virtual machine... Possibility which, by the way, makes the interviewer's cautionary move generally useless.

I suppose if you’re clever enough to set up a VM in order to evade detection, that’s a pretty positive aptitude signal in its own right (though pretty negative on the behavioral/ethics side).

> if you’re clever enough to set up a VM in order to evade detection

It's what you would do anyway, unless you suppose that the interviewee would ever install dubious software on his core machine.

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#86

Post by onethought »

nuclearnice1 wrote: post #66
onethought wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you learn to drive you need [approximately 16 years training your visual system hardware that took 6 million years to evolve and] to see approximately one example and you're able to identify them all. FTFY. Yet Tesla have been working on both the hardware and software for 10 years? Amazing progress right?

If you’re going back 6 million years on evolution, would it make sense to push back the start date for Tesla’s work as well? It seems the right parallel to evolution might include predecessor inventions in vision, computation, and beyond.

Sure… so 100 years? 2000? Take your pick. AI Vision is developing ridiculously fast.

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#87

Post by belter »

nomilk wrote: post #80
cloogshicer wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Ng is also one of those people who believe that we should all work 70+ hours per week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15251769

Musk recommends 80-100hr weeks, every week Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtaxU6DZvLs&t=1m20s

Jack Ma is a slacker...Only 72h per week.

"Jack Ma says his employees should work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week" https://twitter.com/i/events/1116787491707731968?lang=en

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#88

Post by zibzab »

belter wrote: post #87
nomilk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk recommends 80-100hr weeks, every week Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtaxU6DZvLs&t=1m20s

Jack Ma is a slacker...Only 72h per week. "Jack Ma says his employees should work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week" https://twitter.com/i/events/1116787491707731968?lang=en

Maybe that's why CCP took the company from him? Not enough totalitarian work conditions?

Re: Andrew Ng: Unbiggen AI

#89

Post by andrewf »

overkalix wrote: post #14
whatever1 wrote: post #5

My understanding is that they are trying to automate the data preparation steps that seasoned ML practitioners are doing anyway today. The fact that he tries this in manufacturing makes the case stronger. In most manufacturing companies you do not have access to top ML talent. You have Greg who knows python and recently visualized some production metrics. If we could empower Greg with automated ML libraries that guid…

Greg probably also knows SAS and AMPL, and has a good knowledge of ops research, which is within stone-tossing distance of whatever ML is pretending to be this week.

A tangent, if you have time: where would I go for a primer on operations research and/or discrete event simulation?

My thought is that Goldratt's "The Goal" / theory of constraints is a useful way of thinking about optimizing throughput in a computer system. http://www.qdpma.com/Arch_files/RWT_Nehalem-5.gif plus an instruction latency table is something like a well modeled factory. (The Phoenix Project applies these principles to project management, which I think is a somewhat less useful analogy!)

I'm curious about applying existing tools to modeling things like: how will this multi-tiered application behave when it gets a thundering herd of requests? What if I tweak these timeouts, adjust this queue, make a particular system process requests on a last-in-first-out basis? Can I get a pretty visualization of what would happen?

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