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Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

surgehq.ai

81–90 of 152 posts

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#81

echoing a bunch of comments but this seems sort of like a nightmare. its like the classic “dont use comments that are exactly what the code is doing”. basically you are requiring writing this type of boilerplate comments which are completely useless but are now so the machines can write the code for you. i guess if you could have some tool that auto-removes these comments afterwards it wouldn’t be terrible but i just…

>now we have a generation of devs who dont actually understand the way things work.

Can’t wait for this to be true! I will be treated as a demigod compared to them. Job security for life!

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#82

This is absolutely insane. I had no idea Copilot was this good. The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Sure, it makes mistakes and needs verification. But know what also makes mistakes and needs verification? All the code I already manually write as I tediously ratchet towards a solution. Removing some cycles from that process is a win. Just stubbing out close-enough boilerplate is a win…

> Sure, it makes mistakes and needs verification. But know what also makes mistakes and needs verification?

The problem is when it makes something that looks OK but does the opposite of what you want it to. See: machine translation

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An idea is not an implementation, and I clearly mentioned it was an offhand comment in a casual conversation. My "idea" was exactly what I described above. Nothing more. I'm sure several had this idea, and Copilot was probably already in development. My comment was just a way to give a personal anecdote. I'm not sure what your point or complaint is. Did you somehow miss the reference to Office Space? It wasn't a seri…

okay yeah - I apologize. In the context of other comments it seemed a little more dismissive of the tech itself. I see now that you were quite clearly going for humility. Should have caught it on the first read however, sorry again.

Not a problem. :) Context and tone is hard in text. I felt silly saying that but I did have the idea I mentioned. I have a pretty good track record of having ideas I have no clue how to implement. Haha. Why the visual programming analysis project went nowhere. It's like tech and programming shower thoughts.

The Copilot tech is completely of my league.

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#84

This is absolutely insane. I had no idea Copilot was this good. The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Sure, it makes mistakes and needs verification. But know what also makes mistakes and needs verification? All the code I already manually write as I tediously ratchet towards a solution. Removing some cycles from that process is a win. Just stubbing out close-enough boilerplate is a win…

> The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Indeed. Every negative comment I have seen here has been a shallow dismissal by someone who clearly hasn't engaged with the tool. I'm not sure why people here are so primed to shit all over anything potentially innovative, seemingly even without background knowledge. Like, is there something inherently offensive to coders about a model that threat…

You might think it's awesome and well-executed, and still think that an automated toxicity classifier is a terrible idea.

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#85

This is absolutely insane. I had no idea Copilot was this good. The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Sure, it makes mistakes and needs verification. But know what also makes mistakes and needs verification? All the code I already manually write as I tediously ratchet towards a solution. Removing some cycles from that process is a win. Just stubbing out close-enough boilerplate is a win…

> The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Indeed. Every negative comment I have seen here has been a shallow dismissal by someone who clearly hasn't engaged with the tool. I'm not sure why people here are so primed to shit all over anything potentially innovative, seemingly even without background knowledge. Like, is there something inherently offensive to coders about a model that threat…

This is definitely a very cool tech demo, but I got the same feeling reading this as I do when I read a blog post years ago where a guy walked through using very rigid green-red-green TDD to solve a hairy algorithmic problem[0]: it sort of seems like the person already had the shape of the solution in their head before they started writing the code.

Which is maybe the point! As the article points out, remembering the correct incantation to get matplotlib to spit out a bar chart is hard[1]; I certainly have to look it up literally every time (well, these days, I just use tools which have more intuitive APIs, but that's maybe besides the point). I don't really know what it means to "binarize" a dataset, but apparently the language model did, and apparently seeing the giant stack trace when trying to plot a precision-recall curve was enough to prompt the article writer to realize such an operation might be useful. When you're doing exploratory analysis like this, keeping a train of thought going is extremely important, so avoiding paging back and forth to the scikit-learn documentation is obviously a huge win.

But, on the other hand, this isn't a "no-code" solution in any real sense, because for all intents and purposes the author really did all the difficult parts which would've been necessary for a "fully coded" solution: they knew the technical outcome they wanted and had very good domain knowledge to guide the solution, and, shoot, they still ended up needing to understand semantics of the programming language and abstractions they were working with in that stacktrace at the end. It's still extremely neat (and, presumably, useful) to see the computer was able to correctly guess at all the syntax and API interfaces for the most part[2], but I don't really think you can fault people for wanting to push back against the idea that this is somehow fundamentally transformative, since I think it's pretty obvious that the human is (still) doing the hard and interesting parts and the computer is (still) doing the tedious and boring parts. Maybe people shouldn't be getting flustered about a click-baity title over-promising a hip new technology, but as you say:

> Or is it just years and years of people getting burned by previous "AI" projects without knowing that this one is actually rather impressive and comes from good research?

There's definitely some of this.

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[0] I wish I could find the link for this, but I'm very bad at google these days.

[1] To risk ascribing agency to a statistical model of github commits, it is sort of funny that the co-pilot pulled in seaborn as a dependency but then did everything directly with calls to plt and DataFrame.plot.

[2] I don't really have the expertise myself to tell you whether that scikit pipeline is at all reasonable, I suppose. It sure sounds fancy, though.

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#86

This is absolutely insane. I had no idea Copilot was this good. The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Sure, it makes mistakes and needs verification. But know what also makes mistakes and needs verification? All the code I already manually write as I tediously ratchet towards a solution. Removing some cycles from that process is a win. Just stubbing out close-enough boilerplate is a win…

[deleted]

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#87
post #76

This comment will of course be down voted, I'll attribute this to selection bias caused by the headline of the article. You can't classify a comment as boolean toxic, toxicity does not exist in a vacuum. To extend the analogy from it's biological counterpart, toxicity depends on the organism. You should never just a piece of text in isolation and draw any conclusion about it. It must understood in context, both that…

I mean, what you're saying just isn't really directly on-topic. The article's focus is a a copilot tutorial, clearly meant to be illustrative rather than literally used in production. So it comes across like you're criticizing the article for doing something it isn't really concerned with doing to the degree you are expecting.

Does that make sense?

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Indeed. Every negative comment I have seen here has been a shallow dismissal by someone who clearly hasn't engaged with the tool. I'm not sure why people here are so primed to shit all over anything potentially innovative, seemingly even without background knowledge. Like, is there something inherently offensive to coders about a model that threat…

You might think it's awesome and well-executed, and still think that an automated toxicity classifier is a terrible idea.

It's simply a fun toy tutorial and likely good introductory material for people trying to learn language modeling and classification, two important topics in the broader NLP/machine learning scene.

The article isn't making any suggestions about whether or not they are good or bad ideas.

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#89
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The negativity here just seems like sour grapes or weird goal posts. Indeed. Every negative comment I have seen here has been a shallow dismissal by someone who clearly hasn't engaged with the tool. I'm not sure why people here are so primed to shit all over anything potentially innovative, seemingly even without background knowledge. Like, is there something inherently offensive to coders about a model that threat…

This is definitely a very cool tech demo, but I got the same feeling reading this as I do when I read a blog post years ago where a guy walked through using very rigid green-red-green TDD to solve a hairy algorithmic problem[0]: it sort of seems like the person already had the shape of the solution in their head before they started writing the code. Which is maybe the point! As the article points out, remembering the…

Thank you! This was researched and informed by the article we're all meant to be discussing. That is all I ask, ha.

I 100% agree that this is not a "no-code" solution as is defined. On the other hand, I wouldn't really mind a definition of "no-code/low-code" that involved this - but indeed, not there yet.

And yes, more-or-less I generally agree that this is a tool that must be used by experienced developers. So I can see how a false claim of "no-code" (basically defined as devs-not-needed) would trigger folks to be a little defensive.

However! If you are a programmer with experience, and you want to make your work just so much easier, then copilot is a great tool. I implore you to try it yourself with VS Code/Vim/emacs rather than using openai/codex as the autocomplete is what makes it great.

Re: Building a no-code toxicity classifier by talking to GitHub Copilot

#90
post #35

We're all focusing on the weaknesses of co-pilot (the comments can be longer than the code produced; you need to understand code to know when to elaborate your comment, etc). But also ... what do you need to know to recognize that the concept of a 'toxicity classifier' is likely broken? We can do _profanity_ detection pretty well, and without a huge amount of data. But with 1000 example comments, can you actually get…

The fact that "toxicity" is not well-defined or black and white and you'll never be able to reach 100% accuracy is extremely obvious and not very interesting. That's probably why nobody is talking about it.
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