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Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

fujifilm-x.com

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Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#81

Post by awinter-py »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #80
awinter-py wrote: post #67

also interesting is the following clause > 5.3 BEFORE SELLING, LICENSING, PROVIDING OR DISTRIBUTING THE DIGITAL IMAGING SYSTEM TO YOUR CUSTOMER (IF ANY), YOU SHALL EXPLAIN AND MAKE SUCH CUSTOMER FULLY UNDERSTAND THE WARRANTY-EXCEPTION SET FORTH IN THE PRECEDING PARAGRAPH. this is a b2b2c term -- we need better tech for capturing consent up the chain and for surfacing contract terms to downstream clients (notwithstand…

Of course it isn't good that the warranty is being voided, but as a matter of contract this particular clause seems very logical. For the consumer it is good to know when you are being provided a third-party service/app that could void a warranty, and a clause like this makes the third-party provider liable for non-disclosure of the risks.

but they're not being provided a 3rd-party app that voids a warranty

they're getting a 1st party app that (if you think this contract is enforceable) voids the warranty

in practice, this whole page of products https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/products/software probably (I'm guessing) uses the sdk, is probably advertised as part of the product's value, and doesn't say anything about warranty

if fuji finds out you used the camera with photoshop, then uses that to reject a subsequent repair (related or unrelated to sdk), this seems like a reasonable case for false advertising and a refund

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#82

Post by trainsarebetter »

ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

They don’t want to cannibalize the other product markets. Canon for example was caught up with the video features that they added to the 5d back in the day. it sparked a video revolution, but destroyed their camcorder sector. same thing again when they released “cinema” specd cameras, that really just had different firmware than the photography cameras, but priced much higher.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#83

Post by makeitdouble »

ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

Japanese gov/corporations have a natural aversion to directly dealing with customers at scale.

They’ll want a proxy layer of third party corporations, which can then deal with the minutia of exposing it to end customers. Canon/Nikon/Fuji/Olympus have SDKs and partnerships, they just don’t want to deal with the individual customers.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#84

Post by nerderloo »

ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

Sony does have SDK: https://developer.sony.com/develop/cameras/

There is a third-party camera remote app made with it(I think): https://monitorplus.cc/

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#85

Post by myself248 »

ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

For a while in the late 1990s, there was a nominally-open camera OS called Digita. I had a camera that it ran on, and none of the skills to take advantage of it, but I remember someone built DOOM for it so that was neat.

People were writing Digita programs to do things like eat NMEA0183 GPGLL sentences and stuff them into the EXIF tags, because USB wasn't ubiquitous yet and a lot of cameras still had RS232 ports and cameras certainly didn't have native geotagging yet, but someone figured out it would be useful.

It was pretty wild, and I don't know why it flopped.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#86

Post by LorenPechtel »

jseliger wrote: post #57
ISL wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the bigger players, they miss out on market segmentation. An EOS M with Magic Lantern has a number of features that are featured on Canon's cinema line, for example. The M is perhaps no longer competitive in key ways, but had ML been available with today's level of polish in 2012, it would have eaten into higher-margin products. Fuji is perhaps best poised to enable open development -- their pricing structure is…

In the meantime, everyone except professionals and image-quality obsessives has moved to phone cameras, for which Google and Apple have developed incredible software. It's been obvious for at least ten years that camera makers need to improve their software, and they've not done so, or very minimally done so.

My experience is that the phone can do just as well as the real camera for shots which are easy to take. I still go for the real camera in situations where it's not so easy. (High zoom, need to focus on something other than the foreground (say, an animal with vegetation in the way), slow shutter speed to compensate for inadequate light etc.)

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#87

Post by LorenPechtel »

999900000999 wrote: post #64
morpheuskafka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in this case, the camera processor still retains final control over the commands from the SDK. This isn't a customer firmware, just a networking interface that simulates pushing buttons and changing menus. The firmware has just as much ability to reject damaging commands as it would if the user was physically entering them.

Not many humans can click a button 30 times a minute for 5 hours straight. This feels like cya, it probably won't break the camera, but just in case it does .

That was my thought, also. You very well might be able to do things with the SDK that no human can do. The Therac-25 disaster comes to mind--a sufficiently skilled operator could inadvertently command it to become a death ray. (The trigger condition was to change it's operating mode while it was still executing the previous mode change command. Your average operator couldn't enter orders fast enough, but the fastest people could. It was supposed to work at high power with a target in the way to convert the electron beam to x-rays, or at low power as a direct electron beam. Confuse it and you got the high power mode with no target in the way and a fried patient.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#88

Post by LorenPechtel »

trainsarebetter wrote: post #82
ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

They don’t want to cannibalize the other product markets. Canon for example was caught up with the video features that they added to the 5d back in the day. it sparked a video revolution, but destroyed their camcorder sector. same thing again when they released “cinema” specd cameras, that really just had different firmware than the photography cameras, but priced much higher.

Cinema requires different lenses.

A standard camera lens will not remain in focus while zooming. Cinema lenses have to--imposing restrictions that cause the lenses to be a lot more expensive. (A cinema lens works fine for still photography, but why pay the price/weight premium?)

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#89

Post by LorenPechtel »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #25

> Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Fujifilm hereby grants to you a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, and royalty-free license to; (a) use, modify and make a limited number of copies of the SDK solely for the purpose of the Development; Later in the same agreement... > 3.5 You shall not (and shall not permit others), to reverse engineer, reverse compile, or disassemble the SDK in any way(…

SDKs are normally a bunch of function headers and documentation explaining them. You can do what you want with that, you're not supposed to look under the hood and figure out *how* the functions actually work.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#90

Post by astrange »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #59
ciprian_craciun wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the camera is already ~1.5-2K EUR (without lens), thus I think the price already covers it... But if I must put a price on it, I would say ~100-200 EUR, but then it should come with at least 5 years of updates, and it should work on Linux. :) Also, just supporting some basic features, like shutter and all the exposure settings, shouldn't be that hard... I bet all of these are already implemented, because many c…

I would happily pay a subscription for an iOS app. The usual argument against this is being commodified, but for the vast majority of the market, Canon has already been commodified in the shape of Apple and Samsung phones. They have to compete now on how good their hardware is, but their "stupid" hardware doesn't cut it without smart software. Their time in the broader marketplace is gone. They can get a small amount…

Sony cameras have a remote control iOS app.
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