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Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#81

Post by dazc »

moritonal wrote: post #55
dazc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend in the UK, similar situation. After years of receiving no help I took it upon myself to figure out what was causing his self-sabotaging behaviour. I can't say I made any great discoveries other than figuring out his trigger points and devising strategies to avoid them. Obviously everyone is going to be different but my friend's issues stem from being lonely and isolated a lot of the time. Simply me be…

Could you expand on "I found that ensuring he always has a supply at home has helped with this too"? I guess you mean that when they'd go out to a pub or bar they'd spend too much, which means that social pressure of embarrassment and bar-staff weren't effective controls. Did the extra money spent add to the pressure? What I'm curious at is that makes it sound like they're somewhat controlled within their home, or ju…

He would buy his drink daily, not always from the same place and not at the same time. So some days he'd buy a bottle of cider, other days a bottle or two of wine, a bottle of spirit, etc. In other words, his alcohol consumption was erratic and the fact he had to go out and buy it everyday sometimes led to unintended outcomes such as mixing with the kinds of people with similar issues, having small accidents, being robbed a couple of times, and so on..

I don't know what went through his mind every morning but I'm sure that buying his daily alcohol fix was a top priority and everything else was secondary.

I figured that if he got up everyday without this nagging thought in his head then it may help him regain some semblance of control? Because I bought the same brand of drink and in enough quantity to ensure he wouldn't need to go out any buy anymore each day, it also helped him establish a steady routine. In a way, it made it boring for him but not to the point where he'll resort to his previous behaviour. The fact he isn't paying for it is also a motivating factor, obviously.

A year on and he's now in a routine where he doesn't drink before 3pm and then only one 1 ltr bottle of 5% strength cider. His health and general mood have both improved and, most importantly, there have been no hospital visits.

I describe him as alcohol dependent rather than a full-blown alcoholic because his drinking is more a learned habit rather than pure addiction. I'm not sure my strategy would work so well otherwise and I would certainly caution against it.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#82

Post by subungual »

ejb999 wrote: post #48
dazc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I was trying to say that it would be in the hospital's interest to offer a better solution since it will be that very same hospital that this guy will inevitably return to. I guess you are in the camp that thinks everyone can help themselves? All I would say to this is that there's lots of evidence around you that proves this idea is wrong.

OK, tell me specifically what a hospital - or anyone else - can do, to 'help' a patient that won't help themselves? Lock them up and dry them out against their will? Should we lock up drug addicts to keep them away from drugs? how about forcing blood pressure meds down the throats of people who are on the verge of a stroke, but won't stay compliant? My guess is you have never worked in primary care, if you did, you w…

This person is right that hospitals, or health care systems in general should be working on this. It's more complicated than simply not helping people who won't help themselves. The difficulty is that no one knows the best, most effective systems or approaches for doing this, and emergency medicine resources are stretched very thin here in the United States. Emergency departments were designed for the stabilization of life threats, but in our modern collapsing medical system, limiting their scope to this falls short of community needs. There are many people whose only contact with the medical system will be the ED, and finding ways to treat and integrate them into more sustainable programs should be a goal. There are promising advancements being made, however, in initiating standard of care treatments in emergency department settings. On the opioid front, we can start suboxone in the ED, which has proven a pretty effective method of stabilizing people and increasing their participation in treatment down the road. (1)

As someone who is working on this, I don't think it's unfair for people who aren't experts in the field to recognize and call out the fact that something should be done differently. The experts agree, and many of us are trying to figure out a better path forward.

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4527523/

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#83

Post by giantg2 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #60
saiya-jin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is mismatched expectations. General, ie university hospitals are normally not a place to treat addictions of any kind. You have rehab clinics, psychologists, AAs, church for those who need such authority and so on. These tend to be on their own, separate, not in hospital. Emergency services is set to treat physical damage to the body, not psychological issues of any kind.

Church is only good if someone is already a believer: We shouldn't be pushing religion as a solution to addiction, though. That is one of many issues with AA (Yes, I know it works for some people, but it fails so many)

It's not about faith. It's about community and being part of one that at least gives a tiny crap about you (as opposed to the general population).

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#84

Post by ethanbond »

cloutchaser wrote: post #45
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the truth is immediately apparent, and the post you're replying to is mentioning part of it: we know how many people died, and have good enough data on causes. Lockdowns caused some deaths, with alcoholism being part of it. It also saved quite a few lives by reducing the number of traffic accidents. And no matter how you slice it, nothing comes close to the number of actual COVID deaths, let alone the number of d…

> That would have been abut 5x as much, or 1.5 million Is this some sort of scientific fact or your opinion? Frankly if you look at say the death rate difference between Florida, Texas (hardly any lockdowns), and California, or New york, your 5x number makes no sense. There were nowhere near 5x as many deaths in Florida, despite an older population. Peru had massive lockdowns, and they've topped the deaths per millio…

In what alternate universe did Texas have “hardly any lockdowns?” They shut down restaurants, bars, gyms, social events just like everywhere else.

And yes it is obvious (derivable from germ theory) that lockdowns are effective at slowing the spread of disease exactly in proportion to how complete/total/rigid the lockdowns are. Whether they were worth the cost is obviously more complex to answer.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#85

Post by moritonal »

dazc wrote: post #81
moritonal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on "I found that ensuring he always has a supply at home has helped with this too"? I guess you mean that when they'd go out to a pub or bar they'd spend too much, which means that social pressure of embarrassment and bar-staff weren't effective controls. Did the extra money spent add to the pressure? What I'm curious at is that makes it sound like they're somewhat controlled within their home, or ju…

He would buy his drink daily, not always from the same place and not at the same time. So some days he'd buy a bottle of cider, other days a bottle or two of wine, a bottle of spirit, etc. In other words, his alcohol consumption was erratic and the fact he had to go out and buy it everyday sometimes led to unintended outcomes such as mixing with the kinds of people with similar issues, having small accidents, being r…

Wow, that's impressive. You made it made it boring for him. I appreciate the caveats but from my arm-chair perspective it looks like you're doing the right steps here.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#86

Post by dazc »

ejb999 wrote: post #48
dazc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I was trying to say that it would be in the hospital's interest to offer a better solution since it will be that very same hospital that this guy will inevitably return to. I guess you are in the camp that thinks everyone can help themselves? All I would say to this is that there's lots of evidence around you that proves this idea is wrong.

OK, tell me specifically what a hospital - or anyone else - can do, to 'help' a patient that won't help themselves? Lock them up and dry them out against their will? Should we lock up drug addicts to keep them away from drugs? how about forcing blood pressure meds down the throats of people who are on the verge of a stroke, but won't stay compliant? My guess is you have never worked in primary care, if you did, you w…

Referral to psychiatric consultation would be a start. There is a reason why people resort to harmful behaviours and without addressing this you are never going to cure the underlying problem.

I guess the alternative is to do nothing and expect people to cure themselves purely through sheer will, as, more or less, what happens now?

Please explain how this is working?

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#87

Post by sjg007 »

stef25 wrote: post #26

Right before the first lockdown I started a new high stress job and for several months our two toddlers weren't allowed to attend school. During the first few weeks we tried to make it "fun", I'd start working around 4-5AM , alternating morning and evening shifts of work / toddlers with my partner. Then colleagues started complaining "wtf this guy's playing with his kids in the park at 2PM" and I got really bad feedb…

Sounds like a bad job and even worse colleagues and a terrible manager. I found that alcohol just makes everything worse. Yes it relieves stress in the moment but that stress rebounds 2x the next day, then 3x the day after that and so forth compounding itself.

Having young kids changes your sleep schedule. I am sorry your job treated you that way. I also tend to wake up at 4am-5am as I have kids. I just try to make it to 8 or ideally 9pm before I go to sleep. Also consult with a sleep doctor, alcohol acerbates sleep apnea which can cause poor sleep. Practice good sleep hygiene as best you can.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#88

Post by matwood »

Epiphany21 wrote: post #5

Recently (within the last two years) I had to help someone suffering with alcoholism/DTS and I was horrified by the abysmal outpatient support the medical system here provides. If he didn't have health insurance and a ride I would not have been able to convince him to go, and he could have died. It's very hard to argue with his contempt for hospitals and doctors when all they do is give you an overpriced potassium IV…

I've dealt with an alcoholic for almost my entire life. Unless that person decides to stop, there is nothing a hospital (or anyone else) can do. It's sad and it's hard, but it's the reality.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#89

Post by briHass »

dataengineer56 wrote: post #68
chockchocschoir wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defensive, I'm trying to explain my position (as a self-proclaimed "smart and rational" person) since you claimed there was no (logical) reason to have those vices. You're making strong claims, and I'm just asking you to back those up without forcing people to buy a book that you say supports those claims. Otherwise there isn't much value in you making your claims here. I'm sure (or rather, I hope) the book h…

I asked why you found it enjoyable and you didn't respond, so it's hard to explain the author's viewpoint when you haven't explained why you drink. To give generalised responses to the three main reasons that people give: - Do you enjoy the taste? - Alcohol is ultimately a foul-tasting poison. No one ever liked their first taste of beer. We start with highly-flavoured drinks like alcopops and after a while our body s…

Nobody likes their first taste of black coffee or unsweetened grapefruit, either. The bitter tastes are definitely acquired, and tend to be liked by men more than women.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#90

Post by lkxijlewlf »

j-bos wrote: post #80
stef25 wrote: post #26

Right before the first lockdown I started a new high stress job and for several months our two toddlers weren't allowed to attend school. During the first few weeks we tried to make it "fun", I'd start working around 4-5AM , alternating morning and evening shifts of work / toddlers with my partner. Then colleagues started complaining "wtf this guy's playing with his kids in the park at 2PM" and I got really bad feedb…

Did your colleagues get jealous because you used the alternate schedule well or simply because you had an alternate schedule?

They got jealous because they're toxic dickheads. Who does that to people?
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