I'm working on a project for France to rollout virtual power plant flexibility with domestic electric heating. We get pressure to rapidly increase the rollout now. Let me know if you want to join us!
Hey heyyeah I can't see your e-mail in your profile. Could you contact me ? Cheers !
France ends gas heaters subsidies
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Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#82I'm working on a project for France to rollout virtual power plant flexibility with domestic electric heating. We get pressure to rapidly increase the rollout now. Let me know if you want to join us!
Hi heyyeah. It sounds interesting. I am now in Bordeaux and looking for software job or freelance missions in energy/environement sectors. Can we talk? My email is on my profile.
Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#83When I lived in France, gas-powered "heating mushrooms" were a common sight in most restaurants and cafés. They basically generate radiation heat so people can comfortably sit outdoors in the early spring / late autumn months. I always thought that this seemed like a capital waste of energy, basically "heating" an unenclosed outdoor space. In the grand scheme of things those heaters probably don't make much of a dent…
So instead of actually solving problems that waste the most energy, we should virtue signal instead? ban something because 'it sends the wrong message', not because it is an actual problem?
Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#84Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is why my developer salary is very heavily taxed and energy upgrades (insulation, airtightness, heat pump, etc) for the aforementioned people are subsidized.
But how will the people lift themselves up by the bootstraps if you spoil them with subsidies??? /s
Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It might as well happen a bit more quickly. This sounds a bit rich, I mean, many of us here in Europe don't have the financial resources to just shrug this off as "it might as well happen now than in 10 years from now". I agree though with the take on France, they're one of the few countries in Europe who can afford to make that move right now (at least on paper, I don't know the details of their electrical and pow…
In the UK, cost of running an air-source heat pump was on par with a gas boiler; now, I'd imagine, gas boiler is more expensive. France IIRC has cheaper electricity, so the imbalance is even greater. So this seems like exactly the right approach: the state is shifting subsidies to the cleaner source, doing what should be done anyway. I agree affordability is an issue, and the state should step in where necessary.
- a big capex (~20k euros)
- a sufficiently insulated house
So potentially, for old house in moderately cold winter climate that means 50-60k euro investments that probably can be paid back in 15 years, if everything last at least 15 years without breakages... Far more economical air-air or air-water heat pumps can't be used in many place simply because of exterior temperature, especially at night, and insufficient insulation.
Of course: we know all houses MUST tend to consume less, BUT pushing the need for new houses in the middle of a crisis, where many comprehend that's partially natural, but also partially artificial (just to make some people richer) it's not exactly a viable way. Italy for instance launch a "110% incentives" that essentially means: we (government) pay 110% of any work needed to get 2 energy consumption class improvement in houses. The result after more than an year is a disaster: due to high demand it's almost impossible finding anything and prices have been skyrocket well passing bonus thresholds. France have launched a bit before "1 euro symbolic price for generic insulation", as a result many choose it, it was far simple than the Italian 110% but again the outcome was mostly very bad: to maximize profits most enterprises have done very bad/useless jobs just dropping insulation without ventilation, without caring of humidity etc.
IMVHO the SOLE option is pushing individual homes, offering incentives to sell apartments to the State (buy back to demolish in the future) in exchange of new A-class houses. That means a first batch of remote workers and retirees from the middle class, behind them small opportunities for service industry will appear so new people coming and behind them others as well. That's might be doable in 25+ years for a significant amount of people, in 50+ years for most with a new old distributed economy in the whole country instead of a concentrated ones in the hands and places. The rest seems to be a classic stereotypical USA-style business plan: try and fix on the go while making disasters on scale. It's a recipe for a disaster so big that have all the potential for a global unrest at WWIII level...
Just pushing "small potatoes" efficiency like "just change to heat pumps for hot water, induction plates etc" is meaningless: the outcome will be may small capex for not really reduced opex, a big amount of wastes, a big gains for few who build such appliance and no real benefit for the society. For instance I have a hot-water heat pump and a solar p.v. system, most of the time I prefer heat water with the classic 2.7kW electrical resistance inside the pump because it's load curb works far better with p.v. self-consumption since it's far faster than the heat pump and so let me schedule more loads (washing machine, dishwasher etc) during the peak hours. Long story short: if we push p.v. systems it's better for them having a kind of electrical appliance that's NOT better for reduce power bill without p.v. and that's a problem. Also their MTBF vary and that's another problem. These days and not from today too many prefer focusing on an aspect and ignore the big picture, that does not work. We always need the big picture.
Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#87The thing about Europe weaning itself off Russian hydrocarbons is that it was going to happen anyway, with all the green targets etc. It might as well happen a bit more quickly. Especially so in France, which already has massive carbon-free electricity sources.
Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> All of the aggression on Ukrainian can be traced back to them moving closer to the EU, NATO, and putting western hardware on Ukrainian soil. That's what Russian propaganda keeps saying. But they ignore the huge amounts of gas that was found in the region of Ukraine that was annexed by Russia. Further, Ukraine gave back their nuclear weapons. Meaning, Ukraine already acted to demilitarize. Ukraine moving closer to E…
> That's what Russian propaganda keeps saying. Not really. Russian propaganda talk about liberating Ukraine because it is ruled by Nazi's. They talk about themselves as the heroes rather than wanting to destroy Ukraine "just" to create a neural zone. The gas might be a motivator too but as you said yourself Ukraine was moving closer to EU and NATO before Russia started any hostilities. Summarizing will always leave s…
Long story short: putin is a dictator BUT his propaganda have plenty fo truth to use against NATO just because the other side (USA and UK in primis, BUT others as well) are equally dictatorships only with much more hypocrisy and less symbols. The famous putin's definition of the west as the empire of lie is unfortunately actually true.
The "solution" then depend on who: for us, Citizens, the solution is eradicating the neoliberal ideology will all their apical figure put to serve lifetime jail in condition sore enough to discourage anyone trying to follow their examples. For USA and UK gov. the war MUST go on though because they need to silence protests against them by their own people hit by economic crisis and Democracy destruction operated by them. China LIKE the war because for them means having plenty of Russian's natural resources, at a discounted price, and also probably access to high tech military gears, probably enough to counter USA in few years given their industrial power. Putin need a bit the war to silence protests in Russia itself, destroy the oligarch he dislike (and he actually thanks the NATO for sanctions help). So that's the issue: the solution needed by the people is the opposite of the needs of the "élites".
Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#89I'm working on a project for France to rollout virtual power plant flexibility with domestic electric heating. We get pressure to rapidly increase the rollout now. Let me know if you want to join us!
* (super summarized), France developped nuclear electricity back in the 70s. As a counterpart, Electric heaters were massively deployed
* Electric heaters were deployed with a technology named "fil pilote": when you change the phase, you can drive the target temperature https://www.vitahabitat.fr/blog/qu-est-ce-que-le-fil-pilote-...
* Unfortunatly, to drive the temperature, you need... something to drive it which was not deployed: you cannot plug a NEST and plugin in in a thermostat is complex
* In recent years, DIY based solutions based on Home Automation or Shelly were deployed by DIY communities but hey this require high skills & dedicated server (synology like), and sometime soldering. There is no plug and play solution on the market
* Heatzy.com proposed a wifi based solution but you can only do On/Off, not select a target temperature (so this is useless)
So having a single wifi small box to plug on the heater to drive the target temperature is a game changer
--> Since i'm looking at this market every years since 2013, it has not evolved until this post on hcknews! Very happy to see this solution coming! you made my day! (unfortunatly we're at the end of winter :))
Re: France ends gas heaters subsidies
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Old lady with a meager pension can still wear more clothes and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Same goes for the family with three kids. Indoor temperatures going down by a degree or two really is not a big deal.
> and ensure that her home is properly insulated. Netherlands is planning to get rid off gas for a while. I've attended a presentation by the city. They planned to spend 12.500 EUR per house to switch to an local heating plan. Basically a source of hot water will enter the home. This pipe is way bigger than a gas pipe, this is why 12.500 EUR is needed per home. They mentioned that likely you'll pay the same for heati…
Not only: many industrial process need heat, they might probably switch to electricity but not "today" and even doing so the price of the output will be veeeery higher than today not counting the fact that actually we do not know how to satisfy such eventual hyper-big electricity demand. If tomorrow all cars became e.v. in a snap we simply can't recharge them. Not only: we can't make metals for the green revolutions without fossils. etc etc etc.
Long story short: I'm a LEFT-wing environmentalist and I see the Green New Deal as green as "dollar green" or "stereotypical toxic waste green", certainly not environment natural grass green. Oh, and do consider a thing: so far skyrocketed prices from gas, oil etc is NOT due to the Russians who keep selling as usual (and sanctions avoid touching those aspects) BUT due to future market speculations witch is a western and neoliberal thing, as "green" as the nazi, the same nazi they have armed and trained in Ukraine actually, not much differently on the original nazi in Germany, created and financed by the big & powerful of their time, locals AND from other countries included USA and UK wealthy and gov. (remember IBM and Standard Oil just to name two well known?)...
Smelling rodent for myself I've choose to live a big city for a mounting area (a bit remote, BUT well served for various aspects, from internet connections to food and services) building a modern insulated house, with a small p.v. systems etc at that time was not cheap but now start to pay back not much by nature but by artificially skyrocket price of anything. And that's not good ALSO for me because yes, these days I'm well served by such investments but that's for artificial reasons. I'm still be "less wealthy" than what I could due to the new deal. Only very few keep profiting toward 2030 agenda where "no one [but neoliberals élite] will own nothing"...