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How did the gold standard work?

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Re: How did the gold standard work?

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that most of that gold isn't the US's, but other countries' gold that the US is holding for them (because securing tons of gold isn't easy).

“ because securing tons of gold isn't easy” Why not?

Hundreds of billions of dollars of gold would be a decent motivation to go to war.

If Manhattan fell to a foreign power in war, it wouldn't be such a bad bet to say that human extinction would be not far behind.

Ukraine's locally held bank reserves could possibly be lost to Russia in a matter of weeks.

Plenty of countries want to increase the faith in their local currency by storing reserves somewhere which would be among the last to be lost to war.

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#82

Quoted post unavailable.

rofl stack sats. really . there is zero likelihood of bitcoin ever replacing any of the fiat system. Bitcoin is so heavily regulated and tracked now anyway.

Do you think it would be wise to stick 100k sats into a cold wallet — to use in 10 years from now just in case you are wrong?

That’s $39 usd today. Cheap insurance.

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#83
post #40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thought has crossed my mind that the answer is, it is impossible to have a long-term gold-backed system (or any other commodity), for all the various reasons that doesn't work, and it's impossible to have a long-term system not based on gold or some other set of commodities, because it is impossible for a government to be given the power to print arbitrarily without eventually using it, unto the death of that cur…

> it's impossible to have a long-term system not based on gold or some other set of commodities, because it is impossible for a government to be given the power to print arbitrarily without eventually using it, unto the death of that currency. And this is why the US government isn't directly involved in the process, nor is it given the power to print money arbitrarily. Money is "printed" via a combination of loans an…

Aren’t interest rates set by the Fed? Banks then charge a rate based on the Fed base rate + risk premium.

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Double spend your coins only. And even then, you wouldn't because doing this kind of attack would destroy the value of the network and all your investment in mining ASICs would be destroyed. Here's how it goes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjyJhKpLUBU

This discussion is originally about comparing bitcoin to gold. OP is saying bitcoin's security is equivalent to the underlying crypto protocols which is clearly false as there is a finite amount of computers on Earth to render it worthless. Nation states don't bother attacking bitcoin because there's little payoff relative to the cost. However, if we suppose there's a hostile country that held their central bank rese…

Sure, but they could not. Watch that video above. Andreas is right on the money as always. This was designed this way. No government can stop this. It is a force beyond that which can be controlled. Some people find this thought troubling, and look look to suppress it. It is ultimately futile.

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#85
post #69
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell why bitcoin is inevitable as opposed to the gold standard :)

And why bitcoin, and not dogecoin or ethereum?

Ethereum no, cos you can’t run a node, your just trusting an RPC provider. Same with the rest of the EVMs and other smart contracts platforms.

Dogecoin you can but it’s much much smaller in terms of ownership. Brokers and exchanges hold a lot of it.

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#87
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are flaws in the current bitcoin/cryptocurrency mechanism that there 'probably' will never be a 'bitcoin standard'.

Could you elaborate on those flaws? Your info might not be current on the state of the art. It seems to work almost flawlessly in my opinion.

The working of cryptocurrency is flawless, but the current mechanism or the way it works has some flaws in my opinion. Like the Nakamoto consensus mechanism, how the actual code runs, who has and does not have the right to modify the code, does the code after being deployed on the mainnet needs to be modified in the first place, does the code needs to be fixed-static-immutable, governance (51% limit), POW vs POS vs different types of POS etc.

I will write it in detail on my blog and post it. The basic theory is in my head, I just need to write it down properly.

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#88
post #79

Well, let's start with commodities. They have value, see, and that value contains both the exchange value (what it's worth in exchange for another commodity) and the use value (the value it provides as a commodity, like a coat keeping you warm.) But exchange value of commodity to commodity is a pain, so inevitably people tend to turn to a commodity that can be the "money commodity". A universal store of value, in thi…

> , the bulk of the excess gold in a money -> commodity -> money transaction comes from extracting value from labor Huh? Thats just speculation, why would gains come from labor? Would losses go to labor? I dont see a connection.

That's a fair question, my comment was getting long in the tooth.

So, let's take a commodity like a wool blanket (or some other simple commodity to illustrative purposes). That blanket has more value than the wool that made it, but where did that come from?

When the wool becomes a blanket and gains value, it does so because someone put the labor into converting the wool to a blanket. So the generic function here is commodity + labor = higher value commodity.

This goes all the way down. The wool comes from someone putting in labor to get it from the sheep. And it continues up, the blankets become part of hotels, bedding, other higher value commodities, etc.

More expensive commodities are more expensive because they need more labor to produce.

So a commodity is essentially a crystallization of labor value. It represents a complex chain of labor value multiplying other labor value.

So back to your question. CMC transactions are about using gold to compare labor value crystalized in commodities. I'm selling my blankets to an iron miner, but I don't need iron ore. But with a universal money commodity like gold I can go buy the commodities I do need.

The MCM transaction has you buy my blankets and sell them later for more than you paid me without adding labor. If the value has increased, but no additional labor has been done to it, it's still the same blanket I made. I can also sell my blankets at the higher current price, so what have you done except taken some value from me? Where else does the value come from?

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#89
post #65

Well, let's start with commodities. They have value, see, and that value contains both the exchange value (what it's worth in exchange for another commodity) and the use value (the value it provides as a commodity, like a coat keeping you warm.) But exchange value of commodity to commodity is a pain, so inevitably people tend to turn to a commodity that can be the "money commodity". A universal store of value, in thi…

Even in a world where the only model is commodity -> gold/money -> commodity, there will be people who will hoard a commodity to sell it when the demand is high. So, hoarding and making profits is a human nature, that just cannot be avoided.

The desire to do that is human, sure, but we can build systems to limit its impact.

We could have a negative interest rate, tax wealth rather than income, etc etc. People going to try to hoard, but you can add friction to make that harder.

Re: How did the gold standard work?

#90
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's impossible to have a long-term system not based on gold or some other set of commodities, because it is impossible for a government to be given the power to print arbitrarily without eventually using it, unto the death of that currency. And this is why the US government isn't directly involved in the process, nor is it given the power to print money arbitrarily. Money is "printed" via a combination of loans an…

Aren’t interest rates set by the Fed? Banks then charge a rate based on the Fed base rate + risk premium.

The fed is largely controlled by the Federal Reserve banks, which are independent entities and are run as private businesses.
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