Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought my signin woes were finally solved after moving everything over to 1Password. It works great and auto-fills usernames/passwords and TOTPs with a shortcut. Doesn't that dilute the value of MFA and essentially make it SFA? If someone compromises your 1Password app or password, then they get both factors of authentication. what if an employee leaves their laptop unattended I think that's what automatic screen…
> Doesn't that dilute the value of MFA and essentially make it SFA? If someone compromises your 1Password app or password, then they get both factors of authentication. Yep, that's the point. I have been using the internet for 20 years now and have somehow managed to not get hacked by using unique passwords, not clicking on porn pop ups or falling for phishing attacks and updating my OS occasionally. I take a risk ev…
Why Single Sign on Sucks
81–90 of 124 posts
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#82Maybe someone can answer this, why are client certificates not more popular instead of something like VPN for work? I suppose even with client cert, you would still need to login, though if your computers login is already managed through AD/ldap or something and you enforce timeout logout policies you could argue that if you are logged into your machine that is good enough. Even if not, then a client cert plus a SSO…
Implementing it requires some uncommon TLS configuration and a little cert work. Using it prompts uncommon native popups, slowing people down. Failure leads to weird redirects for which you can't really fall back to a login prompt because the auth happens on TLS level and a token in HTTP can't replace that.
Having to install a certificate per browser per device is kind of a pain, at least password managers solve that. There's no reason password managers couldn't also sync certificates, but the functionality simply isn't there yet.
TLS auth is definitely the cleanest solution from a technical point of view; the stateless HTTP layer doesn't need to track auth, it just gets the necessary information from the layers underneath it. Sadly, its lack of popularity means it's seen very little love from developers the last ten years.
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#83Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#84Why don't people just use webauthn?
This means that unlike my phone, my desktop always requires some annoying fallback. For U2F I've configured Krypt, which uses my phone as a U2F key, but that doesn't work for webauthn (yet?).
This means I'm always filling in password forms for services that also offer webauthn as an option, at least when logging in from my desktop.
The fact I need to go through some form of recovery process to register a device for every browser I use (and, in case of temporary logins on borrowed devices, removing the session again) is also rather annoying.
Then there's the fact that webauthn is only a single factor, and there are real benefits to 2FA. Stolen/mirrored phones at airports of oppressive regimes are a credible threat depending on the business you're serving, so it's essential to have a 2FA option in some form. As webauthn is the "something you have" part of the traditional factors, that means you're either supposed to implement biometrics or some kind of password as a second factor. At that point webauthn is practically U2F with a built in username.
There are also certifications they require your company to use 2FA regardless of the level of security your IT team thinks it needs. You can probably explain away the need for 2FA but I don't think the legal/compliance people in your company will be happy with you if you make them try that.
I'm all for webauthn, but "just use webauthn" isn't a generic fix. It's great for simple services like chat apps, forums, things like HN, you name it, but for business logins there are often requirements that take away a lot of the benefits to the system.
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Employers also see trusted employees smile and leave for competitors even after signing that they would not do that. Employers who ask their employees to sign immoral and usually illegal non-compete clauses deserve whatever they get, honestly. Employers should expect their employees to go work for competitors when they leave. Where else are they going to go work, but companies with similar operations? An ecology ma…
> Employers who ask their employees to sign immoral and usually illegal non-compete clauses deserve whatever they get, honestly. Employers should expect their employees to go work for competitors when they leave. That's my point as to why employers want to immediately stop access to employees who leave for competitors. > An ecology management company fires and ecologist and they clutch their pearls when that ecologis…
I mean, couldn't you make an argument where that's just capitalism at work? If Firm A is going to be competitive, they'll need to compensate their employees well enough that Firm B doesn't have the ability to poach. An employee with a considerable amount of stock in Firm A is gonna think twice before they devalue their shares by running to a competitor.
> Many people agree with you, until they start their own company and theft happens to them, draining their work straight to a competitor.
Again: tough luck.
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#86I feel like this article misses the point that SSO is intended to benefit organisations, not users. The selling point is that if an IT department can point a new service at Active Directory or something, it's going to be much less of a headache than managing n sets of user credentials.
I can think of two times in my life where I even considered the possibility that one of my peers would do something malicious on their way out the door, but management worries about this all the time. On the one hand, Precautionary Principle. The costs of being wrong - and having to explain it to the Board - are just unimaginable. So sure, if you want IT to have a way to push a button and block someone out of the ent…
The risk does not come primarily from disgruntled employees doing bad things—there's already a huge legal deterrent to that since they know exactly who you are. The bigger risk is what can happen when credentials are stolen by actual criminals. This is context dependent, but scales with the number of employees times the number of accounts, the latter of which has trended up dramatically as cheap B2B SaaS has proliferated.
What happens when a laptop is lost? What happens if a DB is hacked and users had reused passwords? How do we know who even has access to what when teams self-administer access control? These start to become real security problems at relatively modest scale even if we assume every employee is a saint.
Even leaving security aside, the management of accounts starts to become a significant pain point in the low hundreds of employees and so it will typically be the IT team that pushes for SSO first well before compliance comes into the picture.
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#87I just saw fedora 35's installation and it actually wants your login from either google/something else/etc (calling "enterprise login")... they actually hid the way to make a local account. smh. what a failure.
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#88These are quite young but in my opinion are the identity layer that the web never had and let us to all of the broken experiences that OP discusses well in their article.
[1]https://w3c.github.io/did-core/
[2]https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/#what-is-a-verifiable-cr...
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can think of two times in my life where I even considered the possibility that one of my peers would do something malicious on their way out the door, but management worries about this all the time. Because employers see how some employees act as they depart, even though they don't act similarly around their coworkers. Employers also see trusted employees smile and leave for competitors even after signing that th…
> Because employers see how some employees act as they depart, even though they don't act similarly around their coworkers It's fun, because in my experience, departing employees are always playing ball, while employer starts doing stupid things. In France, we have 3 months (!) of resignation notice (and it usually really lasts 2). I've always seen departing colleagues still working the whole notice. However managers…
Unfortunately it's pretty common in the US, though in some states (like California) such clauses are illegal and unenforceable.
I'm always torn on these sorts of labor requirements/protections. I think anti-compete agreements are gross, but I also wouldn't want to be subject to a mandatory notice period of any kind, let alone 3 months.
Re: Why Single Sign on Sucks
#90I feel like this article misses the point that SSO is intended to benefit organisations, not users. The selling point is that if an IT department can point a new service at Active Directory or something, it's going to be much less of a headache than managing n sets of user credentials.
Not just miss the point but isn't also just incorrect? SSO typically doesn't require you to login more than once a day. Unless they explicitly set a policy to expire sessions really fast. If you have Okta/Auth0 or the like in your enterprise it should cookie your session in the identity provider and automatically admit you to anything gated by that identity provider