Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks • Hacker News Board

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#81

Post by hprotagonist » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

I have a family member who ended a 60 year friendship yesterday because the other party, who lives in moscow, wholly embraces the russian propaganda line; up to and including telling my family member that it's impossible that the city they both grew up in has been being shelled for the last week, and it was just the west's lies.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#82

Post by parkingrift » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen. And that’s with free press in America.

Not at all hard to believe that a significant proportion of Russian people believe this lie.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#83

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

I can confirm it does happen, usually older folks and housewives, but still it is real.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#84

Post by itsoktocry » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #77

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

Unless you're suggesting the poster is part of the meta propaganda I'm unclear on this. These are direct firsthand accounts from friends.

Maybe it's just me, but when I read "I've a friend that..." on the internet, it doesn't much sway my opinion. Besides, there's nothing wrong with questioning the claim, is there? I truly am skeptical that "significant" portions of the Russian population believes the Ukrainians are killing themselves. That doesn't mean it's not true.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#85

Post by nafizh » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:22 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

It's not like this is something new. Majority Chinese people are supportive of CCP no matter what it does. Even if there's opposition among mass people, there's no way to know.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#86

Post by istorical » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:25 PM UTC

1_player wrote: post #36

DesertBattery wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're wrong. People getting angry at West and talking about war. Including nuclear.

It seems it depends which generation we're talking about. Younger Russians seems to be the ones most connected and thus aware of what's going on abroad, while middle aged Russians are playing the ostrich and burying their head in the sand. I saw an interview yesterday of a journalist wanting to show 50-something Russian people what's going on in Ukraine, and most of them were like "I don't want to see, get that thing…

I saw that as well and it was interesting, but unfortunately that style of video (man on the street aka vox populi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_populi) is notorious for "seeming" like its an accurate and balanced survey / measure of public sentiment to a viewer while its still just as editable/influenced by the journalists subconscious or conscious editorial bias as any other form of journalism or propaganda.

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#87

Post by itsoktocry » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:25 PM UTC

parkingrift wrote: post #82

itsoktocry wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. This sounds like Western meta-propaganda. Russia isn't some mysterious other-world filled with low IQ people. Are we really to believe that swaths of their population believes the Ukranians are merely offing themselves during an invasion? Is there anything we can read that points to this, eve…

A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen. And that’s with free press in America. Not at all hard to believe that a significant proportion of Russian people believe this lie.

>A significant proportion of Americans believe the 2020 election was fraudulently stolen.

Are you actually claiming that the scale of absurdity between believing election fraud (something members of both parties claim, every losing election, going back decades[1]) and that Ukrainians are killing themselves, en masse, are remotely the same?

1. Here's Hilary Clinton continuing to make claims about 2016 in mainstream media: https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-electi...

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#88

Post by randogeuebdb » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:27 PM UTC

Not arguing against sanctions in general, but for South Africa, the collapse of the soviet union, which had been propping up the south african economy, played a more important role.

https://reason.com/2013/12/06/did-economic-sanctions-help-en...

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#89

Post by mongol » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:29 PM UTC

ismaildonmez wrote: post #21

cabirum wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Ukrainans believe there's a "ghost plane" in the sky that destroyed half russian air force.

It’s normal, in a war you need myths. Don’t confuse them with government propaganda.

Seems like two words for the same thing

Re: Yandex warns of bond repayment and supply risks

#90

Post by unfocussed_mike » Sat, Mar 05, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #51

osrec wrote: post #2

I believe the sanctions may well trigger a change in the Russian public's opinion of Putin. Right now, my Russian friends tell me that state propaganda is so strong that a significant proportion of the Russian population believe the Ukranian deaths are due to Ukranians just killing themselves. Surely at some point they'll see that what they're being told doesn't make sense. Especially if they also start to see a dete…

After seeing what about half of America was able to believe for over six years I have no confidence that people will realize things don’t make sense

You aren't wrong but it's important to note that you can't quite separate the two parts of this analogy. They are on a continuum.

Just as with some of the worst lies of Brexit or anti-EU sentiment in mainland Europe, the worst of the lies people believed in the USA were helped by Putin's "outreach" work, both in terms of dark money and via the disinformation teams operated out of the Kremlin like the GRU, and by hacking/activist groups who were possibly unwittingly controlled.

In a climate of disinformation, it's Putin's world, in many ways, and we just live in it. Putin's regime is the primary exporter of state-sponsored misinformation and disinformation globally.

And as to people struggling with things not making sense: that's literally the point.

Both in and outside Russia, Putin's aim is not to have a consistent projected worldview or propaganda; his aim, and his success, is in undermining everyone else's. He was taught to do this by people like Vladislav Surkov, and he is very good at it.

He wants you not to trust anything to be true; just trust that his power is true.