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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#81

Post by gruez »

thehappypm wrote: post #77
TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

Successful demographics are evil. They must have become successful via exploiting others.

Some people believe that a certain group of people have "undue influence over the media, banking and politics"[1]. What is that group? The answer might surprise you, it's quite versatile!

*obligatory disclaimer that I'm not equating the groups of people or their mistreatment, nor condoning any of their mistreatment.

[1] taken from wikipedia

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#82

Post by ayngg »

I feel like these affirmative action policies are attacking the wrong aspect of scholastic achievement that doesn't need to be addressed as urgently as other problems in the system. These policies benefit students that are already having some degree of success, but they don't help the students that really need help, the students that have serious trouble with their education like those described in [1]. Those students are basically pushed through via no child left behind and then graduate (or drop out) and immediately fall through the cracks of society into a poverty trap that is very difficult to escape without a real education, skills or opportunity. I think this is the place where the most gains are possible which can then lay the foundation for improving communities that seem perpetually stuck in poverty. In comparison, those getting into a top institution via AA would most likely experience some degree of success even if AA didn't exist.

For those that benefit from AA to get into elite institutions, this can paradoxically end up being harmful as they are often thrown into the deep end where they have to compete with peers that are the brightest in the world since they have had to go through all of the supplementary development necessary to compete with the best of the best to get accepted [2].

[1] https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/city-student... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/the-pai...

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#83

Post by matchbok »

goodoldneon wrote: post #57
userbinator wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't. That shouldn't ever be a goal. Unfortunately a lot of people don't realise that the real world isn't, and can't be, that way.

Quoted post unavailable.

I’m sad that you support discrimination.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#84

Post by SamReidHughes »

jimbob45 wrote: post #61
goodoldneon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suggest we increase admissions for under-represented groups?

You stop blaming their issues on the white boogeyman and instead knuckle down to fix the hard problems that don’t have sexy solutions (e.g. single parent households, poor nutrition, high-crime proximity, lack of access to studying material, etc).

None of those things you listed are a problem for the upper half of minority households by income. For example, the upper-half of blacks have a higher median income than whites (including if you control for age) and no poverty.

And the bottom half, most of those aren't the kind of shitty parents you're suggesting they are, either.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#85

Post by jjcc »

TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

I think somehow it's based on the idea of "give more opportunities to the weak" which seems more humane.

It's not the policy only in the State. Believe or not, there's a similar policy in China that if a student is ethnic minority then s/he can get extra scores on the university entry exam named GaoKao which is equivalent to SAT. To take advantage of the preferential treatment, there are quite some fake "minority" students who might have some blood of ethnic minorities. The favorable treatment is not limited to GaoKao.

Personally I'm not totally against the policy in general. It's true that weak groups need to be taken care of. But there are many problems:

1.It doesn't reflect the real academic capability for the students who got extra scores. Eventually some of them can not catch up the pace of normal courses.

2.It created another stereo type and bias towards those students. The are considered to be less competent but actually some of them are excellent.

3.There's no social problem like eastern Asia countries that the minorities are very small group. No body complain. In US it's a totally different situation that could cause tension.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#86

Post by uejfiweun »

tyjen wrote: post #80

I'm a confused by the equity claim to justify discriminatory behavior with what seems like heavy emphasis on race. It seems difficult to achieve equity without transparent, and standardized methods emphasizing a holistic assessment covering visible and invisible, immutable and mutable characteristics--each of which impact individual outcomes. I understand that tackling overrepresentation and underrepresentation is im…

You have to understand, this is the last dying throes of a liberal fire that has been raging for hundreds of years. Liberalism has achieved great things in the west, including expanding the rights of women, minorities, and LGBT individuals. We are all better off for its achievements. However, the low hanging fruit is taken, and now the same activists that once fought for noble goals are reduced to taking ever more divisive measures in pursuit of an unattainable ideological purity. The hyper focus on race, the election of Trump, the increasingly bizarre language of the modern liberal intelligentsia - these are all symptoms. Expect these crazy racist programs & ideas to intensify in the next 10 years until the whole movement collapses in on itself like a dying star (it may have already started, look at SF school board elections).

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#87

Post by jquery »

colordrops wrote: post #5
TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

There often isn't a coherent logical explication of the policies and ideas being pushed around racial justice. Or, there is, but it involves many things that can't be said out loud, so the reasoning is obfuscated and distracted from.

No post body was provided.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#88

Post by gruez »

woodruffw wrote: post #47
dahfizz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, sure. In a perfect world we would have enough resources for everything. In the real world, affirmative action policies disadvantage asian people. > Affirmative action makes the world a more just place. The question you have been dancing around: why is it just to disadvantage Asians in favor of other minorities? What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

There is none, because there is no mainstream progressive position associated with discriminating against Asians. You can refer back to my original comment for why that is. Edit: To be clear: what I'm claiming is that the "progressive" position is better associated with improving education overall. It's only through a particularly warped partisan lens does it become this ridiculous squabble over artificially scarce r…

>There is none, because there is no mainstream progressive position associated with discriminating against Asians.

Right, just as there's no political party/government whose position is runaway inflation. Yet, runaway inflation still happens, usually as a result of some sort of government policy. The fact that no one advocates for it directly is irrelevant. If you advocate for a policy, you're advocating for all of its effects, good or bad.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#89

Post by trhway »

godelski wrote: post #66
mattnewton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as you applied and had the minimum required GPA of 3.5, GPA is not a useful measurement across schools in the US, because the scope of difficulty and curriculum varies widely between states and municipalities. It's also easy to game in schools that offer advanced courses- just don't take them. At my school, the people who had the highest GPA did so by avoiding classes like AP calculus BC. Any one of these m…

> GPA is not a useful measurement across schools in the US Didn't Google do some hiring study and find that grades didn't matter as long as they were above a 3.0 or something? I know there is a lot of noise in grades, but there's probably some threshold. Here's some source https://web.archive.org/web/20210610101258/http://qz.com/

If I remember Google's racial makeup is pretty close to the racial makeup of {x: SAT(x) > 1450}

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#90

Post by hedora »

deepGem wrote: post #74
endisneigh wrote: post #23

the problem is and always has been that the particular school you attend has too much weight, irrespective of ability or aptitude. if college admissions were high school blind then this wouldn't even matter to begin with. simply being great, regardless of which school you attend would be enough. re: TJH admissions: > In 2020, during the summer after George Floyd’s death, the Virginia state government announced that i…

In addition, standardised tests do not have any bias about your past or about your education. Anyone can start from scratch, prepare and ace them. All other forms of admissions, GPA, essays etc have biases of other parties. Essays and recommendation letters especially. Also they are so easy to game. They should clearly eliminate the test fees and make free prep material available for those who can't afford them. Cond…

The University of California is eliminating them because scores are correlated to race.

Ironically, they used to have a set number of seats for people that had bad grades and aced the standardized tests. Blacks, Hispanics and other economically disadvantaged groups were over represented in that admissions pool. (So eliminating the tests will reduce the number of minority kids. According to the WSJ, they did this in Virginia in an attempt to boost enrollment in those groups. UC claimed that was their goal, but the study that they commissioned specifically to evaluate the policy change said it would reduce minority admissions.)

Doubly-ironically, a while back, California colleges had explicit quotas for Asian kids to keep them from "taking over". They eliminated the quotas and promised to never do it again.

They're still making a big stink about how the student body isn't representative enough. Guess which group is the only overrepresented one in California. (Hint: It's not the Caucasians.)

The structural racism in this state continues to amaze me.

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