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World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

reuters.com

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Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#81

Post by friedturkey »

deutschewelle wrote: post #75
BoorishBears wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person watched a documentary and come to a moral stance so you say "it's not achtually their belief". So any beliefs you pick up from your surroundings actually belong to the surroundings by your estimation. Strange way to announce you have no beliefs of your own, but assure you it doesn't apply to everyone.

The backhanded comment really wasn't necessary here. All I did was point out that a financial transaction needed to take place between an individual and a large corporation who push their own version of moral reality. To me that is THE experience of one's moral values shifting to match the narrative producer BY paying for it. Imagine if you needed to pay someone everytime you needed to FEEL informed rather than actua…

What's with your backhanded comments lol

People have been getting informed through documentaries for decades. People have been getting informed through books for millennia. People have been sharing experiences through discussion before recorded history.

People share knowledge through countless mediums and that's how we learn and grow. Saying this is dystopian is goofy and makes no sense. Chill out, lad.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#82

Post by nefitty »

bmitc wrote: post #61
causasui wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, we can't stop eating every animal... ... > Why do humans have a complete lack of an ability to say "stop, we're not going to do this anymore". I'm trying to understand how these two statements were separated by only a couple sentences.

Unless you can invent life that doesn't require the consumption of other life, we're stuck with what we have. As far as I understand, humans have always eaten meat, including before fire was discovered. There's a certain biological component for being omnivores. Second, I am human too, you know. I'm made up of the same bullshit everyone else is. However, at least I try to question what I do and try and stop things, a…

Sliding into this subthread, this explanation you just gave of where you are is why I commended you upthread. I recognize your embrace of your own self-awareness and moral openness. I like people like that.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#83

Post by sweetheart »

bmitc wrote: post #61
causasui wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, we can't stop eating every animal... ... > Why do humans have a complete lack of an ability to say "stop, we're not going to do this anymore". I'm trying to understand how these two statements were separated by only a couple sentences.

Unless you can invent life that doesn't require the consumption of other life, we're stuck with what we have. As far as I understand, humans have always eaten meat, including before fire was discovered. There's a certain biological component for being omnivores. Second, I am human too, you know. I'm made up of the same bullshit everyone else is. However, at least I try to question what I do and try and stop things, a…

The original comment was in reference to animals specifically, not just life, so saying we need to eat life to survive and therefor must eat animals is incoherent.

Also, for how long humans have eaten meat is totally irrelevant: doing something for a long time does not justify it.

Human beings don’t require animal products to thrive, period, so those that eat them anyway engage in unnecessary cruelty against other sentient animals. The unnecessary part is the most crucial.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#84

Post by PretzelPirate »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #29
nefitty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals yes. Plants? I eat them without guilt. I wouldn't eat insects, not only because of my conditioned disgust, but now even moreso because crustaceans were found to be capable of suffering based on an 8-point scale. Bugs and crabs don't seem so far off to one another in my mind.

We as a society seem to have no problem killing millions of insects to make it easier to grow plants though. No matter what you eat, things are dying to supply your food. If you want to minimize the number of animals being killed, it’s probably best to eat the largest ones you have.

> it’s probably best to eat the largest ones you have.

This fails at scale. Feeding our population on large animals requires significantly more plant mass than if we eat plants. Large animals are terribly inefficient at converting plant matter into food.

We will harm fewer sentient creatures if we simply eat plants directly.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#85

Post by asdff »

gerdesj wrote: post #3
miguel_rdp wrote: post #2

On a very lateral note, pulpo a la gallega is made with boiled, not seared, octopus

I shall instruct my octopodal mates to avoid hot baths and go for the incineration option instead. This is a tricky one. Where do you draw the line as an omnivore?

If its been distributed here, prepped, and offered for sale, I might as well eat it since its there anyhow. Better conditions for animals will come from legislation and not consumer choices.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#86

Post by bentona »

honkycat wrote: post #28

By all accounts octopus intelligence is extremely overblown. And "sentience" is an extremely low bar. Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus. We tolerate farming these animals. Much to our own detriment in terms of health, and nutrition, and environmental impact, land usage, and water usage. Plus there is the problem of breeding MRSA. Plus they…

> Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus

What studies do you have in mind?

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#87

Post by mdale »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #19
gerdesj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shall instruct my octopodal mates to avoid hot baths and go for the incineration option instead. This is a tricky one. Where do you draw the line as an omnivore?

Somewhere before primates.

Times you wish you could double up vote :)

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#88

Post by jmcgough »

deutschewelle wrote: post #56
vmception wrote: post #33

It was always possible for me to perceive sentience, feelings and emotions from a variety of beings, I don't understand why grown adults are just reaching a cognitive maturity to notice that and making that a line in the sand on whether they will farm/consume a being based on that. These seem to be two separate things to me? Can someone shed light on both: a) why these are related concepts b) your journey to cognitiv…

In case it wasn't obvious the studies and this article is being written by people in the West who do not consume octopus. These articles almost always seem to derive to us-vs-them narrative, the idea that the West is somehow the forefront of moral novelty and the rest of the world is behind. When the irony is that the same random argument applied towards Octopus can be done on just about any sentient beings like cow…

The growth in octopus consumption is being driven largely by the USA. It's super healthy so I see more middle / upper class Americans eating it. Years ago it was a rare delicacy, now I can walk into most poke bowl restaurants in SF and get octopus. Tapas restaurants have become trendy as well.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#89

Post by friedturkey »

honkycat wrote: post #28

By all accounts octopus intelligence is extremely overblown. And "sentience" is an extremely low bar. Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus. We tolerate farming these animals. Much to our own detriment in terms of health, and nutrition, and environmental impact, land usage, and water usage. Plus there is the problem of breeding MRSA. Plus they…

> Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus.

Octopuses are incredible because we've found the opposite. Octopuses are solving pretty complicated puzzles oftentimes for fun the same way people do. Cows don't. Cows do have social bonds closer to humans, though.

Re: World’s first octopus farm stirs ethical debate

#90

Post by bastawhiz »

sweetheart wrote: post #73
honkycat wrote: post #28

By all accounts octopus intelligence is extremely overblown. And "sentience" is an extremely low bar. Compare the intelligence of a cow or pig or similar mammal to an octopus and the mammal will DESTROY the octopus. We tolerate farming these animals. Much to our own detriment in terms of health, and nutrition, and environmental impact, land usage, and water usage. Plus there is the problem of breeding MRSA. Plus they…

Why not just go vegan if you believe all that?

It's possible to point out contradictions of beliefs without having those beliefs yourself.
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