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Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

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Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#81

Post by awd »

dahfizz wrote: post #66
GeoAtreides wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe there are no such things as: 1) secret trials (there are in US[1]) 2) background checks (for the majority of jobs). Also, criminal records get erased after a period of time, depending on the crime committed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...

If court records are public, is there any technical reason a company could not scrape the records and perform background checks? Or is it a cultural difference that makes background checks less popular?

The various predecessors of the GDPR forbid it.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#82

Post by [deleted] »

chrisseaton wrote: post #59
GeoAtreides wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe there are no such things as: 1) secret trials (there are in US[1]) 2) background checks (for the majority of jobs). Also, criminal records get erased after a period of time, depending on the crime committed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...

> no such things as secret trials ... criminal records get erased after a period of time So it becomes a secret that the trial happened? And I've been background checked for jobs I've had in Europe, even normal civilian jobs.

[deleted]

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#83

Post by brnt »

chaostheory wrote: post #22
jl6 wrote: post #10

In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements - chiefly, unskilled manual labor. A criminal record wasn’t such a barrier to that type of employment. Someone could spend time in prison, and then still find work on the outside. Not great work perhaps, but a living - a way forward for them, to re-integrate back into society. A way to slowly rebuild trust. The shift away from unskilled manu…

> In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements These still exist in the modern era, primarily in industries with high turnover like the restaurant industry, farm labor, and other unsavory industries such as meat processing.

> unsavory industries such as meat processing.

I often wonder what the impact of these jobs is on the humans that are doing it. Half the reason I'm avoiding (supermarket) meat is that I feel bad about keeping these jobs alive. (The other reason is the animal suffering ofc.)

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#84

Post by brnt »

dahfizz wrote: post #56
deeg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the growing number of WFH jobs would help alleviate this. I'm a software engineer who mostly works from home. We sell (mostly) support for OSS. This seems like a situation where an ex-con might have an opportunity.

I think the opposite is more likely. WFH increases the level of trust needed between employer and employee.

I don't really check who's building my websites or little tools I purchase. It's not exactly wfh, it's just having your own business that does not require (much of) an office.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#85

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

brnaftr361 wrote: post #73
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not exactly sure if you are disagreeing with me, because what you are saying is exactly my point. A weed possession charge as a minor is the type of thing that I think regulation should disallow as a disqualifying factor for all types of jobs. The idea would be that I would ask a background check service "I am hiring for a CLERK at CONVENIENCE_STORE", and I would just get back a response "No disqualifying convict…

I'm not disagreeing. But I don't know that I agree, it's a pretty finicky line. Crime is super contextual, so you're barring people who have been rung through the system, and probably have a new environment, a new context; I mean assuming they committed a significant crime. But honestly, in the beginning of "Noise" they start detailing some cases Marvin Frankel reviewed: Frankel did not provide any kind of statistica…

But because of federal sentencing guidelines, which Marvin Frankel helped establish, those kinds of discrepancies are no longer possible.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#86

Post by rilezg »

lr4444lr wrote: post #55
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those not exceptions? How many of the unemployed young men have criminal records concerning sex offense or financial fraud?

The criminal mind uses the means available to him. Bernie Madoff was as much a psychopath as a your average mugger; he just had capabilities to not to have to resort to that crude a level of harm.

I would disagree with the implied dichotomy of 'criminal minds' and 'non-criminal minds', especially given the somewhat arbitrary nature of what we as a society decide is a crime worthy of prosecution. Possessing a bit of home-grown marijuana for personal use can give someone a criminal record the same as other more heinous crimes, and many employers will find it easier to blanket-reject anyone with a criminal record rather than dig into the context of each applicant.

Is the answer to not allow any sort of background checks? I would say no, but it also seems like there is a lot of room to improve our current system and find it in our societal heart to not perpetually punish a person for a past minor offense.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#87

Post by rexpop »

brnt wrote: post #83
chaostheory wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In previous centuries, there were plenty of jobs with low trust requirements These still exist in the modern era, primarily in industries with high turnover like the restaurant industry, farm labor, and other unsavory industries such as meat processing.

> unsavory industries such as meat processing. I often wonder what the impact of these jobs is on the humans that are doing it. Half the reason I'm avoiding (supermarket) meat is that I feel bad about keeping these jobs alive. (The other reason is the animal suffering ofc.)

It's documented to be extremely traumatizing and physically disabling.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#88

Post by chrisseaton »

mjevans wrote: post #80
chrisseaton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a bit dystopian requiring everyone to pretend that a trial never took place when people know it did?

It is dystopian to be sentenced to social death without any chance of reform. All the more so if we can ever figure out the medical stuff and live a lot longer and/or repair injury and defect that might hinder rational thought. There's got to be a method for redemption and being recognized as redeemed. The issue today is that hiring processes are not really fair, they can't be objectively run with subjective measures…

> There's got to be a method for redemption and being recognized as redeemed.

Surely forgiveness, rather than feigned amnesia?

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#89

Post by gjs278 »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

One of the few 501(c)3's I will give money to is an organization that helps offenders go straight when they get out of jail and I see my name on a very short list of private donors. In the 1990s I was a victim of what I would call "Domestic Terrorism", the ringleader of the group didn't go to prison for his actions against me and other people at my college but I did hear that he went to prison for drug charges not lo…

No post body was provided.

Re: Study finds most unemployed young men have criminal records

#90

Post by kingcharles »

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #44
earspider wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point. There's an obvious solution: disallow employers (except in outlier cases where there are safety concerns) from using criminal background checks in hiring decisions.

That would not work. I do not want my teenage daughter to do part time work in a business that employs a sex offender. I do not want to work with an insurance agent who engaged in a financial fraud few years ago.

When is someone rehabilitated, though? Must someone's past mistakes haunt their life to their grave?
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