What are your company's anti-values? • Hacker News Board

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#81

Post by alecbz » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:27 PM UTC

ivan_gammel wrote: post #69

karatinversion wrote: post #53

A company always consists of individuals that have to make trade-offs, so to the extent it has a cohesive culture at all, it will have values that are expressed in those trade-offs. But values (or anti-values) that a company publicly espouses do not need to coincide with its actual values: a value statement of being inclusive does not prevent a culture of bullying, and a value statement of putting the customer first…

This actual vs described values mismatch is a red flag and it could be an easy way to discover toxic culture. When applying for a job, you usually have multiple interviews - HR, team, direct manager. It makes sense to ask all of them about their values and compare the answers.

There are some reasonable explanations though:

* The actual values have changed over time but the value statement hadn't been updated in a while

* Different parts of the company genuinely have different values

I don't think either of those necessarily indicate a toxic culture.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#82

Post by prepend » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:30 PM UTC

I thought that anti-values were the true, unstated values of an organization. Some examples from pockets of my org…

“The more important you are, the less you touch code/servers/things”

“Lots of meetings means you’re important.” (People will frequently humblebrag “I have 13 meetings today”)

“Create a problem, present a problem, let someone else solve, celebrate the solution.”

There’s also many positive values that I think outweigh these anti-values.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#83

Post by sharken » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:31 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #38

ho_schi wrote: post #19

"Human Resources" Department I think that says enough about how company and it bosses think.

Never forget: Human is an adjective in that phrase.

Still, it's better to be a resource than the next level, which is a cost.

I actively try to use people instead of resources in a conversation, have never understood the need to use resources as a word.

Could be it's just a relic from the HR department.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#84

Post by alecbz » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:32 PM UTC

glenngillen wrote: post #57

> “Learn and Be Curious” - what might that cost us? Maybe focus (because it’s ok to go down rabbit holes in order to learn something). So how about “Optimise learning over focus”? Maybe, maybe not. A couple of the values pulled out here are from the Amazon Leadership Principles. So there's actually an answer to this question! The opposite of "Learn and Be Curious" is "Bias for Action" and "Deliver Results". The Amazo…

Do the LPs themselves make it clear when they're supposed to be applied?

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#85

Post by rgun » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #33

I don't see any clear meaning to the term "anti-value" in this article. It seems to imply that a "value" means "more". It does not. "Frugality" is a value of that is a behaviour deemed important to follow, it's not an "anti-value" (whatever that might mean). Similarly, "move fast, break things" means you value action and risk-taking. I was expecting "anti-value" to mean a behaviour deemed negative and to be avoided.

I believe what author means by 'anti-value' is the other side of trade-off, which you are willing to compromise.

Like in 'move fast and break things', you are willing to compromise reliability/stability in favour of speed.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#86

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

sharken wrote: post #83

sokoloff wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never forget: Human is an adjective in that phrase.

Still, it's better to be a resource than the next level, which is a cost. I actively try to use people instead of resources in a conversation, have never understood the need to use resources as a word. Could be it's just a relic from the HR department.

I fight that same linguistic fight. People seem to pretty quickly get it and usually appreciate hearing the tone aet that “our company uses this other perspective; please use people words when talking about people.”

I’ve noticed a pattern that this usage seems to be somewhat more prevalent in south Asians. (I mean this only as an observation on word choice patterns, with zero conclusion or implication on underlying thought patterns. I haven’t had enough British colleagues to notice if it came from British other-colonies roots or not.)

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#87

Post by dmurray » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

YC jobs used to have a good version of this, I think. They put two values in opposition, both couched in positive terms, and asked which one you prefer. Unfortunately I can't seem to find it now.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#88

Post by makach » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:45 PM UTC

not necessarily my company's anti-values, but I had some fun making up some;

  * avoid negativity
  * hide the truth
  * ego outperforms facts
  * kiss ass
  * promote incompetence
  * stick to your guns

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#89

Post by marcosdumay » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:47 PM UTC

puszczyk wrote: post #79

ivan_gammel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actual vs described values mismatch is a red flag and it could be an easy way to discover toxic culture. When applying for a job, you usually have multiple interviews - HR, team, direct manager. It makes sense to ask all of them about their values and compare the answers.

I’d say the opposite, there needs to be a delta between values and actual behavior. I want to be a good husband, dedicated employee, etc. Am I? I’d like to think more often than not. But we all err, and I value the transparency/courage to ack that we are not perfect on our values and still have a long way to go. For me the a flag would be if a person/company is not willing to acknowledge they are not as good as they…

You mean that you should not hide of the difference between values and behavior?

Because there's nothing on that comment that actually supports the difference. And if you are being honest, descriptive values should describe your behavior very closely.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#90

Post by tremon » Thu, Feb 17, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

makach wrote: post #88

not necessarily my company's anti-values, but I had some fun making up some; * avoid negativity * hide the truth * ego outperforms facts * kiss ass * promote incompetence * stick to your guns

What are your the values you came up with, if those are the anti-values?