Wonder what impact this will have on GDPR adequacy for the UK.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_...
UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
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Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#82It's sad because obviously banning E2EE will make pretty much zero difference in keeping children safe. Pedofiles and abusers will just install E2EE apps manually or use one of the zillion systems to send E2EE messages. As an example, banning movie piracy had zero effect in stopping emule, torrents and illegal streaming.
I believe so too. It's not that currently, with no encryption in place on Facebook Messenger, child abusers refrain from grooming children. Yes, it will be slightly more difficult to prosecute them in some cases, but in both cases it will come after the fact. There simply isn't enough capacity to police the messages of billions of users.
Government is pushing for a complete segregation online between children and adults, where you need to have a government issued ID to post online and where you will be prevented from contacting children below the age of 16.
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s a different argument than “they’re not trying to keep kids safe”
It's the stepping stone between the two: you cannot believe the motivation is to keep kids safe if the action makes kids less safe. That doesn't prove a specific other motivation. But it does pretty decisively disprove the stated motivation.
Ah, I see. You’re saying the threat of someone successfully breaching a child’s data and appropriate keys from a service is more significant than the threat of just internet weirdos relying on E2E to transact child pornography with impunity.
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#84There is a large array of organisations listed in the page's footer which support this initiative.
I don't know who they are, but I'd think researching who those organisations are and what their political angle is could shed a little more light on whether this is genuinely motivated by online safety or just a scare tactic for more surveillance.
How the page is worded, it sounds as if they'd also be OK with "only" mandatory client-side scanning a la Apple. (Not that this would be much less dystopic, but it would permit E2EE)
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#85I find the UK government ministers (and others governments I suppose) completely thick and are generally ex-arts-students who (mostly) graduated in "non-degrees" and have precisely zero understanding of science and technology.
There's a saying 'those who can do, and those who can't teach'. I'd add "and those that can't teach go into politics".
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#86I've worked in government influence campaigns myself. I really believe
in positive influence as a social good. Amazing campaigns that we've
had in the UK are the famous 70's "Stop Look. Listen." road safety
campaign with Darth Vader actor D.Prowse, and other great Saatchi ones
with the NHS on heart health and anti-smoking. These all undoubtedly
saved millions of lives without fearmongering, or being overbearing
nanny-state performances.
There is however, a rather sinister subculture within British influence of smug down-talking, classist, oh-so-superior "we know best" messaging. The BBC's TV licence ads were comical, with overt menacing of the poor and old. The late 1980's AIDS/HIV campaigns felt disgracefully out of touch.
Although they look like internal projects coming through outfits like NHS, 77 Bgd. or the H.O. it's really spun out to contractors and the messaging quickly gets out of control. In this case I believe its Saatchi again.
Unfortunately they've really rather fucked this one. I'd call it malinfluence and stright up propaganda in the bad old sense. Indeed, it's a disgraceful example of what happens you you mix technology with people who are intellectually out of their depth.
Knowing a abit about how this stuff works though, I'd say it really isn't necessarily the position of the government. It's a cheap "think of the children" shot against Big Tech (so of course I applaud that) and also a smokescreen for all the other general mischief and twattery going on these days.
It's terrifying that people of such incompetence and ignorance can get their hands on powerful channels - precisely what we're trying to curb when Facebook do it.
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#87Not a web person, but isn't https end-to-end encryption
Yes, but the other end is a centralized website under govt supervision. They are against normal end users directly talking to each other in an encrypted way.
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#88Sorry for the choice words, but shit like this makes my blood boil. You're not trying to "keep our children safe" motherfucker, and you know it. You're trying to prevent people from being able to have private conversations, so your secret agencies can harvest all the data from everyone easily. To phrase it as "but think of the children" is instrumentalizing the actual victims of child abuse and you should be ashamed.
The right to have a private conversation is one of those fundamental rights that society exists to protect. Undermining that in the name of law enforcement is putting the cart before the horse.
I'm sure the police would also have a much easier time solving crimes if they had a CCTV in every living room. They might even pinky swear that that they'd only look at it with a court order. And promise to keep the recording extra, super safe so no bad guys can ever look at it. Just think of how much child abuse takes place inside houses - the very notion of houses that the police can't look into is an abomination that must be banned immediately!
The pushback if they proposed something like that would be enormous. But the only reason they think they can get away with the same thing, just regarding chat systems, is that they want to take advantage of the fact that most people are tech-illiterate enough not to understand how encryption works, while they do roughly understand how CCTV works.
Some things are just too dangerous to exist. A backdoor into every communication channel on the planet is one of those things.
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#89Whilst the messaging here is chilling, I don’t think E2E will be banned in the UK. Not least because journalists and MPs use it everyday in signal and WhatsApp.
Didn't you get the memo? In the UK all the laws and rules only apply to the working class, not the ruling class.
See BoJo's Christmas Parties and weekly "work meetings" for details.
Re: UK launches “No Place To Hide” propaganda campaign to ban E2EE
#90Sorry for the choice words, but shit like this makes my blood boil. You're not trying to "keep our children safe" motherfucker, and you know it. You're trying to prevent people from being able to have private conversations, so your secret agencies can harvest all the data from everyone easily. To phrase it as "but think of the children" is instrumentalizing the actual victims of child abuse and you should be ashamed.
Most citizens are now well aware of governments ploy to use children's virginity to muzzle their dissent.
What! No way, just no way!
You live in bubble. Most citizens include all age groups, backgrounds, etc.
Most people literally have no idea what encryption is, what it means, does, how it is used.
Along comes a trustful thing, a news site or tv channel. It explains that encryption is being used to harm little kids, or to allow thieves to do evil.
Governments spout this blather, because it works on the majority.