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First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

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Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#81

Post by airstrike »

1-6 wrote: post #72
airstrike wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can google "hydrocephalus", though I should warn the images can be a bit disturbing

At least in the US, early intervention allows doctors to recommend shunts so extreme cases of hydrocephalus can be avoided and head sizes normalize a bit as kids grow. The photos are usually from med textbooks and for teaching future doctors and usually demonstrating the extreme forms. Let’s not say alien head. My biggest worry as a young dad was my child being called names because of his head circumference. He too w…

> Let’s not say alien head.

To be clear, I never said that and agree the term shouldn't be used at all.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#82

Post by jac241 »

bobowzki wrote: post #62
wincy wrote: post #3

Very cool. My daughter has a brain shunt due to complications of spina bifida and so we’re thinking of cerebrospinal fluid on a regular basis. As a layman I guess there’s a particular cerebrospinal fluid pressure you want, and that being too high or too low causes issues? Apparently the shunt just drains into her belly so I also found that interesting. Too high and she’ll have terrible headaches and an “alien” head (…

I think it drains into the peritoneum but I'm not completely sure. There's a resistance on the shunt to maintain pressure. Too high will cause hydrocephalus with all sorts of complications. Too low will cause a massive headache short term, long term I'm not sure. I'm an anesthesiologist and frequently work with neurosurgeons.

They tunnel it in the subq until the abdomen then they make a tiny incision in the peritoneum and depending on the neurosurgeon may have general surgery take a look laparoscopically to make sure there’s CSF flow then use the grasper to try to toss it in the right pericolic gutter over the liver.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#84

Post by ninesnines »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #83

Why can’t we garbage collect while conscious? (Serious question. If you simulated this washing behaviour in a conscious brain, what would go wrong and is that addressable?)

Hello!

I think we have to parse this apart a bit. There have been some recent studies that show CSF is related to movement of metabolites in the brain, however these findings are very new.

So if you theoretically wanted to induce more CSF flow while awake, I think this would be possible, but you would have to use a pretty obnoxious stimulus or use a deep breathing exercise - e.g meditation

But because we don’t know the complete reason of why we have changes in CSF flow when people are asleep, maybe there are other mechanisms going on that are acting simultaneously with sleep — e.g large fluctuations in blood flow may be necessary to induce CSF flow

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#85

Post by ninesnines »

whimsicalism wrote: post #16
erikerikson wrote: post #12

This is curious. During my research into neutral networks we depended on a neuroscience result that found waves of trophic factor (i.e. the stuff used to build up neurons [i.e. learn]) travel in cascading waves from the core of the brain to the periphery. By adding a sense of location and a learning term contingent on the factor we saw learning (xor) prohibited by Minsky's result (not really prohibited because we cha…

Was this research conducted prior to 2005? I find the whole xor result to be pretty irrelevant, which I think is representative of the field writ large. > Is anyone aware of modern work expanding on that front? I am curious about this as well, as well as the general state of biological inspiration in the field. My impression was that biological analogy had largely been pretty much completely moved away from, except a…

I will also be interested to see how this develops our understanding of the relationship between inflammation and psychiatric diseases, e.g. depression

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#86

Post by tsoukase »

wincy wrote: post #3

Very cool. My daughter has a brain shunt due to complications of spina bifida and so we’re thinking of cerebrospinal fluid on a regular basis. As a layman I guess there’s a particular cerebrospinal fluid pressure you want, and that being too high or too low causes issues? Apparently the shunt just drains into her belly so I also found that interesting. Too high and she’ll have terrible headaches and an “alien” head (…

Too little CSF leads to slit ventricle syndrome with a scary clinical image but not life threatening. Direct consequence is bilateral subdural hygromas.

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#87

Post by ninesnines »

Hi all!

If you go to scihub and type in the name of the article you can download a pdf

https://sci-hub.41610.org/amp

Scihubs address moves, so you can type into google ‘where is scihub’ if the link doesn’t work

The name of the original article is: Coupled electrophysiological, hemodynamic, and cerebrospinal fluid oscillations in human sleep

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#88

Post by tsol »

treeman79 wrote: post #75
chriscross wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too little CSF leads to the brain crushing itself under gravity. The brain is almost entirely lipids which contributes to its buoyancy in CSF. Take away too much CSF, nothing for it to float in. Too much CSF? The skull is a fixed volume (in adults) so the CSF compresses the brain tissue. In kids, the sutures or junctions between bones of the skull are still flexible. This allows for childbirth and normal rapid brain…

Had a spinal leak after a spinal tap. So too little fluid. It’s a very unique pain. Severe pain at top of head unless laying flat. I spent an entire week laying flat on a couch with a happy cat sitting on my chest. Initial treatment was an IV of caffeine. Then they they had to patch the hole.

I've heard not having enough CSF is supposed to be one of the most painful headaches there are. How bad was it?

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#89

Post by samstave »

toisanji wrote: post #74
samstave wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow - So a few comments on what you beautifully wrote for me: * I attempt to accept it and Breathe - (Some WIM HOF and I just received the book "BREATH" [0] technically i just received via grabbing from my book-shelf after having bought it 6-months ago, without ever picking it up.... :-( --> :-)) [0] https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/ --- But running used to be my thing... in ~2002 I was running 15 miles a day at ~5 MPH.…

did the running help with sleep? thats a lot of running!

I made an HUGE edit to my running but I lost it:

I was running 5 miles early AM, Lunch then Dinner... I did a 5 mile loop 3 times a day...

It was during the downturn, and I was at home 18 months playing games, traveling, and running... I was 25 years old, had been working as an IT manager in SV for ~6 years at that point.

(started at 17 at an Architecture firm as a drafter, and worked up from there)

--

I had a party that summer of ~2001/2002 (cant recall if 911 was before or not - but 75 people came to the BBQ... like 15 had jobs... (ALL devs and Tech (some jobs that dont really exist anymore (SGI Devs, MIPS procs devs, SUNSPARC/SUN devs... A lot of hardware people)

Re: First images of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain during sleep (2019)

#90

Post by treeman79 »

tsol wrote: post #88
treeman79 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a spinal leak after a spinal tap. So too little fluid. It’s a very unique pain. Severe pain at top of head unless laying flat. I spent an entire week laying flat on a couch with a happy cat sitting on my chest. Initial treatment was an IV of caffeine. Then they they had to patch the hole.

I've heard not having enough CSF is supposed to be one of the most painful headaches there are. How bad was it?

Fine if I was flat. A step below severe kidney stone otherwise. So not quite suicidal, but close.

It was only tolerable Because I could lay flat and the pain would quickly resolve. If I laid flat for three or four hours I could stand up for about five minutes before the symptoms hit again.

Not sure how strong the leak was. I suppose it could have been worse.

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