App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee • Hacker News Board

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#81

Post by threeseed » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

keleftheriou wrote: post #56

zepto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Android is in fact the dominant platform by number of users, and has cool stuff like cloud gaming apps that iOS does not. There are also other aspects of the iPhone that many people prefer over Android phones, e.g. hardware features and quality. The point about sandboxing is relevant because many people conflate sandboxing protections with the protections offered by App Review, and thus are afraid that non-App Store…

Cloud gaming exists on iOS as well. And is just as insignificant there as it is on other platforms.

And you are being disingenuous by deliberately ignoring the manual checks that Apple's review team does to prevent malicious apps from being disseminated. I work for a bank and my Mac laptop has 6 apps pre-installed designed purely to prevent malware/viruses. The same will unquestionably be needed on iOS for those using it for sensitive tasks.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#82

Post by javajosh » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #69

As long as this does not cause an exodus from the App Store and I am forced to start paying for apps directly, I am fine with this. But a strong benefit to the App Store for me is being able to manage and cancel my subscriptions from a central place. No going through 5 screens, no being forced to call, no any of that crap. I can already see apps refusing to carry through the App Store so they can control more, and I…

You are in luck! Another way to manage subscriptions client side is to use PayPal. In the same way you have control over all your subscriptions in one place, and can cancel without the interference of the counterparty - a great benefit indeed. And paypal can work with anything, any entity that has a PayPal account. PP is, of course, not without its own horror stories, however a lot of that is around p2p selling-gone-wrong. I have not experienced or even heard of problems around subscriptions, so I think this is a sweet spot.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#83

Post by andrewjl » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:07 PM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #72

nerdjon wrote: post #69

As long as this does not cause an exodus from the App Store and I am forced to start paying for apps directly, I am fine with this. But a strong benefit to the App Store for me is being able to manage and cancel my subscriptions from a central place. No going through 5 screens, no being forced to call, no any of that crap. I can already see apps refusing to carry through the App Store so they can control more, and I…

Where is Apples incentive to leave it centralized if they cannot siphon as much money from the pipe?

Highly profitable hardware sales? There are also many others.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#84

Post by threeseed » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:08 PM UTC

teknopaul wrote: post #75

zepto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Android is the dominant platform, and there is a lot of cool software missing. E.g. Any app that takes donations to charity or payments outside apple. Maybe not cool to you because you don't notice the cut apple takes. Apple users don't even realise there is competition in the keyboard market. Of the many cool apps missing are the ones that require root. Neither platform provide that so loads of apps are impossible.…

a) Nothing is stopping you from charging people from outside the app e.g. your own web site. It's how Netflix works.

b) Multiple keyboards have existed on iOS for years.

c) Spotify and Tidal are examples of non iTunes music players.

d) Nothing is stopping you from running a web server, creating funky projects etc. You are just not allowed to disseminate to others through the App Store.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#85

Post by olyjohn » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

anonymouse008 wrote: post #71

itg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy the security issue scare-mongering from Apple if they are required to open up their platform. Bruce Schneier points out the flaws in Apple's argument very well in his letter https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2022/01/letter-to-t... .

If I paid for Apple's centralization, by buying their products, and now that's being forcefully removed from me. How is this ok?

What's being removed from you again? Don't sideload apps if you don't like sideloading. Keep using Apple's app store if you like it, or maybe in the future, you will find you like an app store better than Apple's. We will never find out if someone does it better than Apple, if nobody can even try.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#86

Post by andrewjl » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

anonymouse008 wrote: post #71

itg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy the security issue scare-mongering from Apple if they are required to open up their platform. Bruce Schneier points out the flaws in Apple's argument very well in his letter https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2022/01/letter-to-t... .

If I paid for Apple's centralization, by buying their products, and now that's being forcefully removed from me. How is this ok?

How is it forcefully being removed from you?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#87

Post by shaky-carrousel » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:09 PM UTC

yalogin wrote: post #79

If this comes into effect will we see a plethora of appstores on each devices? Every app worth its salt will want to create their own bundle or App Store and hope to control their own end to end experience. I cannot imagine how terrible that experience is going to be.

Well, my user experience is my problem. Other people dictating how should I experience my devices is hugely condescending.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#88

Post by nerdjon » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:11 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #82

nerdjon wrote: post #69

As long as this does not cause an exodus from the App Store and I am forced to start paying for apps directly, I am fine with this. But a strong benefit to the App Store for me is being able to manage and cancel my subscriptions from a central place. No going through 5 screens, no being forced to call, no any of that crap. I can already see apps refusing to carry through the App Store so they can control more, and I…

You are in luck! Another way to manage subscriptions client side is to use PayPal. In the same way you have control over all your subscriptions in one place, and can cancel without the interference of the counterparty - a great benefit indeed. And paypal can work with anything, any entity that has a PayPal account. PP is, of course, not without its own horror stories, however a lot of that is around p2p selling-gone-…

Your assuming everyone will use PayPal for subscriptions.

When with this there are no rules forcing them to do anything since they can just ship outside the store.

This doesn't address my issue (also I don't want another one I want to keep everything in a single place in settings on my phone). Considering I have never used PayPal for any of my subscriptions on the web I don't see this catching on for mobile either.

If a company wants to put me through hoops to make unsubscribing hard, there is zero chance they will opt to use something that makes it easy if they have the choice.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#89

Post by henryfjordan » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:11 PM UTC

shimfish wrote: post #78

As an indie dev, I'm really not getting this. Android has had alternate app stores for years. I don't recall any of them being a panacea for poor struggling devs held captive by Google Play. I stopped offering my apps on any of them as it was never worth the bother. What problem is this trying to solve for who exactly? I don't see any way this ends up as a win for small devs.

Maybe there will end up being a single app store for both Android and Apple? As a small dev, you'd only have to deal with 1 upload, a single review process, one set of user reviews, etc.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#90

Post by stuff4ben » Thu, Feb 03, 2022, 8:11 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #5

stuff4ben wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to side with the tech companies (Apple in particular) due to the security issues and review process. It's not perfect and the cut seems excessive IMO, but there is value there that can't be dismissed outright. It'll be interesting to see how Apple and Google handle this. Maybe they'll allow side-loading with big, scary language? Or perhaps a cheaper or even free tier for developers to allow apps on their respe…

Don't kid yourself. Definitely not value for money. They're checking that nobody is getting around their pay-to-play walled garden. Any security checking is probably automated and incidental.

> Any security checking is probably automated

Genuine question, do you think that comes free? It costs money to develop these things and having control over the app store allows them to recoup that. I see no problem except maybe it's too expensive for developers. A more reasonable cut should be offered IMO.