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Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

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Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#81

Post by 8n4vidtmkvmk »

samwillis wrote: post #16

It's lovely to see Safari on iOS getting some attention, but I would love it if they fixed some of the long standing bugs such as the incredibly annoying text selection / caret issues with scrolling. If you have a textarea or input inside a `overflow:scroll` and scroll it out of view or have a `position:fixed` element over it, the text caret or text selection hi-light remains visible outside/above other elements. It'…

my transactional emails aren't rendering correctly in Gmail on iOS. there's no stylesheet, no floats, no grids. just some vanilla ass 1999 html and inline styles and they are still fucking it up with their embedded WebView

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#82

Post by ksec »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #32
feupan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how quickly the App Store was introduced (just one year later) I’m betting that they never had the intention to go web-app only. They probably only needed extra time to figure out the experience for both developers and users (from native APIs to permission model to monetization)

Actually, incorrect. According to court documents released from lawsuits, Apple in fact did not plan for the App Store initially, just like Steve Jobs said on stage. It was not until a few months after the iPhone was released that some internal employees convinced Steve to let it go ahead and release an SDK. I can't find the tweet containing a copy of it, but the actual email where Steve gave the SDK a go is on the p…

And what Steve said at the time remain true to this day, there will be two type of Apps, those that get on the App Store with Native performance, and HTML5 Apps without the need of Apple Approval. That was actually asked in an interview in D8 about the power of App Store, before smartphone was ubiquitous. And yet somehow no one at Apple knew what to do after his death.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#83

Post by ksec »

judge2020 wrote: post #64
asadlionpk wrote: post #62

As a user, I hope Apple doesn't just enable notifications as it is. I tried Android recently for 6 months and permission popups on each site were really annoying!

Given Apple, it'll probably be limited to PWAs on the home screen, aka. only if the user goes to the share sheet and hits "add to home screen", where then it'll pop up the permission for sending notifications.

As someone who "hate" notification on web site. This is something I have been crying for 5 years on HN. Voices finally heard. Nice.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#84

Post by zaphirplane »

rezonant wrote: post #74
littlecranky67 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, that you can always "force" the user to allow you notifications or cannot proceed. And $GREEDY_MEGACORP would abuse their power and send you a "verification code" through the push notification, else you cannot process the signup etc. The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore. Just allowing generic…

As others point out, promotional pushes are allowed on iOS. A site can refuse to give you content if you don't allow push notifications but in practice that doesn't happen because the incentive of the site is to have more traffic. Android has had this capability for an eon and I have never experienced a site try to force you to accept push notifications. I have also never observed a site try to use push notifications…

rottentomatoes is an example site that blocks if you have ads or tracker blockers

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#85

Post by simion314 »

riskable wrote: post #61
simion314 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could do a working GUI with the JVM. But most people demanded Windows desktop apps, and for Windows only you could use .Net and C# for a better experience. Linux community was in big part against Java or Mono because of license and FUD so Python was the winner for the higher level language there.

Firstly let me state that yes, you could make a GUI with Java but it would suck because the GUI toolkits available at the time were just downright awful (and they still are!). Want an app that's super bloated and looks awful (no native controls)? Use Java! Also, the Linux community wasn't against Java per se (not until Oracle bought Sun anyway) it's just that writing Java was a huge/complicated undertaking compared t…

From my memory there were anti-mono communities, and anti mono packages that would force a conflict with mono to help people not install mono by mistake. It was not "use Python over C# because Python is better" the message was "Do not use C# because the language is open but the .Net frameworks is not open" and this is true, Mono implemented non open stuff and Microsoft did not offered a guarantee that they support Mono and won't cause troubles from companies using it. Fuck MS, they had a good language and a decent platform in .Net and Silverlight but they had to prioritize what Windows team wants to we are now stuck with JS and Electron.

Sure Java apps start slower then C apps but I am talking about Pro apps, an app you start in the morning when you start your job and close it when you are done, I don't care is a bit slower. I am also playing games in Wine and when I have foudn modding tools in Java that work natively in Linux I thank in my mind the dev that he was not a Java hater.

But yes, Linux communities most of the time did not care to have theyr apps to work or look native in Windows. So today if I would like to make a quick and dirty Linux app with a simple GUI I am not sure what to use, maybe Electron it would probably give me less issues as a dev(but this is personal opinion since I dislike Python syntax and I don't like to go low level if I don't have too)

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#86

Post by wruza »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #58
jtbayly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add: - Getting notifications from websites I want notifications from This should not be impossible just because there are 5 trillion websites I don't want notifications from.

The problem is, that you can always "force" the user to allow you notifications or cannot proceed. And $GREEDY_MEGACORP would abuse their power and send you a "verification code" through the push notification, else you cannot process the signup etc. The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore. Just allowing generic…

This problem is not a problem if you have incoming information filters, which email had for ages. You don’t have to have mixed feelings, just split it in two parts and have clear feelings of each.

The real problem is that corporations treat all users as idiots who can’t control their software. But a big part of them are not. These talks about users unable to setup their devices (or to get help from someone who can) is nonsense they want us to believe in. And I see signs everywhere that most of software-versed people already believe in it. Feels like seeing sophisticated math proofs, all based on 1+1==3 for some reason.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#87

Post by rezonant »

zaphirplane wrote: post #84
rezonant wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others point out, promotional pushes are allowed on iOS. A site can refuse to give you content if you don't allow push notifications but in practice that doesn't happen because the incentive of the site is to have more traffic. Android has had this capability for an eon and I have never experienced a site try to force you to accept push notifications. I have also never observed a site try to use push notifications…

rottentomatoes is an example site that blocks if you have ads or tracker blockers

Plenty of sites lock you out if you have an ad blocker, here we're talking about locking you out because you have not granted them permission to send you web push notifications...

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#88

Post by zaphirplane »

rezonant wrote: post #87
zaphirplane wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rottentomatoes is an example site that blocks if you have ads or tracker blockers

Plenty of sites lock you out if you have an ad blocker, here we're talking about locking you out because you have not granted them permission to send you web push notifications...

The argument IIRC is sites want eyeballs and wouldn’t block content if you don’t grant notification permissions. Blocking for Ad/trackers is not so dissimilar

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#89

Post by Mindwipe »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #58
jtbayly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add: - Getting notifications from websites I want notifications from This should not be impossible just because there are 5 trillion websites I don't want notifications from.

The problem is, that you can always "force" the user to allow you notifications or cannot proceed. And $GREEDY_MEGACORP would abuse their power and send you a "verification code" through the push notification, else you cannot process the signup etc. The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore. Just allowing generic…

> The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore.

Lol, no it won't.

Apple do promotional notifications themselves even.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#90

Post by kanwisher »

zaphirplane wrote: post #88
rezonant wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of sites lock you out if you have an ad blocker, here we're talking about locking you out because you have not granted them permission to send you web push notifications...

The argument IIRC is sites want eyeballs and wouldn’t block content if you don’t grant notification permissions. Blocking for Ad/trackers is not so dissimilar

They don’t make money if they don’t have ads and trackers. Push notification is just to get you to visit more often. Why would they want to serve the site to freeloaders
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