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How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

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Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#81
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sewing of sail fabric is something different. You need to use heavy duty needle and force it through the fabric. It is somewhat similar I would imagine as dealing with leather. Wood work deals with big pieces comparatively.

Quoted post unavailable.

All of human history is the same at its core. Suffering, exploration, profiteering. Yet we have progressed, bit by bit. We have a ways to go, but the arc of history is bending towards less suffering.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#83
post #5

There's a great book about the progression of clothing, textiles, and fabric being scarce and expensive to commonplace and cheap. It runs through the various technological innovations (think cotton gin, but plenty more), culture, and economics. The Fabric of Civilization by Virginia Postrel. Great quote about Viking sail ships: "Viking Age sail 100 meters square took 154 kilometers (60 miles) of yarn. Working eight h…

It doesn't strike me as surprising that the sail would take longer than the boat. The skill to make a boat is impressive but the mechanics of getting it done aren't enormous. Fabrics and sewing, gathering and prepping those materials and the tedious work seems enormous.

Reminds me of the comparison between computer software and hardware. Hulls are fairly linear. Sails are combinatorial.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#84

> Robbers in Italy or debt collectors in Egypt often stripped the clothes off their victims’ backs, With regard to debt collection, what is interesting is the Bible requires that cloaks that were taken as collateral had to be returned by sunset so the person could sleep in them. Exodus 22:26 - If you take your neighbor’s cloak as collateral, return it to him by sunset, because his cloak is the only covering he has fo…

Kind of contradicts the purpose of the collateral, doesn't it? Does the lender retrieve it as collateral again the next morning? Do they only make same-day loans?

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#85
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

There's a bunch of youtube channels with various takes on "starting from scratch". It seems like a mix of things that are very hard to bootstrap (metal being a big one!), and things that were more coincidental (lathes, saddles and riding gear, spinning looms). Having a modern high school math education would make you the greatest mathematician in history up to about Newton, but more practically speaking I'm thinking…

Not the best example (IMHO):

>how concrete and mortar actually work

Would you tell Roman engineers how to deal with those?

(they actually invented it, and - for certain applications - their concrete is still superior to modern one)

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#86
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. But we do know some things that would seem like crazy hacks to the ancients. For example, I know a simple trick. I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. This would have blown the minds of a learned Roman o…

I love this whole premise, is there a name for this genre of fiction?

Alternative history.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

All of human history is the same at its core. Suffering, exploration, profiteering. Yet we have progressed, bit by bit. We have a ways to go, but the arc of history is bending towards less suffering.

We have exploited our way into climate change, which entails more suffering.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#88

There's a great book about the progression of clothing, textiles, and fabric being scarce and expensive to commonplace and cheap. It runs through the various technological innovations (think cotton gin, but plenty more), culture, and economics. The Fabric of Civilization by Virginia Postrel. Great quote about Viking sail ships: "Viking Age sail 100 meters square took 154 kilometers (60 miles) of yarn. Working eight h…

Plucking sheep.

You shear sheep, not pluck them. If you're experienced you can sheer about 100 sheep per day. You can skirt and wash the fleece of those same 100 sheep on day two. How are you spending the remaining 598 days?

While I'm not an expert at spinning (although my spouse may be), I would venture that 12 or 15 village women carding and spinning 10 to 12 hours a day would be able to go from sheep to sail in about 3 months. Spindle spinning is very portable and something a woman would do during pretty much every spare moment when her hands were not busy doing something else. Making sails would have been a drop in the bucket when it came to yarn consumption since she also had to make all the clothes and cloth for other uses like sacking, ticking, blankets, etc.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#90
post #4

Something that continually just blows my mind is how new spinning wheels are. The most plausible range of time of arrival of the wheel in European contexts is between the mid-1200s to about 1340, which means that textiles produced previously to that were made with drop spindles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindle_(textiles)#Hand_spindl... That includes things like clothing, but it also includes more staggering ide…

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

There's this "Conrad Stargard" book series about an engineer going back in time to 13th century Poland and starting industrial revolution there. The book is VERY, VERY sexist with a strong dose of ephebophilia, the hero is 100% Gary Stu with Catholic-supremacy mania, but the engineering challenges and solutions are quite well presented. The trick was to get a powerful patron early and adapt the technology to the limitations and the engineering looked pretty realistic to me.

For example he makes rails but no locomotives because pulling standarized cars with standarized containers along low-friction rails already brings most of the benefits of modern transport network and is much easier than designing a steam locomotive in 1230s.

There's a lot about industrializing cloth production there, too and it's quite detailed. I liked it despite all the awful stuff.

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