Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare • Hacker News Board

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#81

Post by akvadrako » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:37 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #27

nvelty wrote: post #24

This is a direct result of the (intentionally) punitive nature of vaccine mandates. Broad, heavy-handed actions by the government are the classic spark for societal backlash. A softer approach that focused on positive benefits for having a vax pass versus punishing unvaxxed would probably had better results. Instead, we've pushed (presumably) otherwise law-abiding citizens into using forged documents. This directly u…

Some states tried using positive feedback in the form of lotteries, prizes, or even just paying people to get the vaccine. I don't think those measures were very successful.

I haven't heard of paying people to get vaccinated so I search for it and one of it worked a little bit even when it was a measly $24, which doesn't it really cover the time it takes.

https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/does-paying-people-get-v...

Where did they do it that it failed?

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#82

Post by 015a » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:38 PM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #17

Validating seems to be so lackluster that I'm not sure fake card producers are even an issue currently. Any time I've had to validate my vax status in order to get into some establishment, either a crappy photocopy or a digital photo of the card on my phone has been accepted without even blinking. Typically they don't even look at the info, they just see you wave something that looks vaguely right at them and they're…

Somehow, inexplicably, some of our governments believed it a good idea to delegate underpaid, overworked individuals at private companies to the role of vaccine police. At best, its virtue signal posturing; ineffectual. The far scarier take: a power like this should principally and traditionally lie with the police, but legislating it so would have the optics of being authoritarian, thus our governments delegate the power to private corporations, further entrenching the cyberpunk corpocapitalistic power dynamic of the real governance of the United States. Such a move (nearly) flies by, even lauded by some, because the population at large still doesn't recognize or respect how much fucking power corporations have in this country.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#83

Post by monkmartinez » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

cute_boi wrote: post #73

badtoro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a common and well documented knowledge that obesity and alcohol use increase hospitalizations. Do you propose fitness and sobriety passports to incentivize healthier life styles?

If obese and alcohol user starts to fill up hospitals, spread diseases to other, causes trouble to other people, is recommended by public health officials I would say Yes. And I think obesity, alcohol are too different than current corona virus.

They are not different. I can assure you that we don't run many 911 calls on gym rats, runners, cyclists and hikers... unless they have injured themselves doing said activities. Drunk idiots and Obese people are the overwhelming majority of our calls.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#84

Post by nonethewiser » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:40 PM UTC

Why did this drop of the front page? I'm not familiar with how the HN algorithm works. I would guess some combination of recency and activity.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#85

Post by argvargc » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #36

nvelty wrote: post #24

This is a direct result of the (intentionally) punitive nature of vaccine mandates. Broad, heavy-handed actions by the government are the classic spark for societal backlash. A softer approach that focused on positive benefits for having a vax pass versus punishing unvaxxed would probably had better results. Instead, we've pushed (presumably) otherwise law-abiding citizens into using forged documents. This directly u…

My observation is that the political polarization of the topic came before any government action, and is the more primary cause of the issue. Government action (both heavy-handed and otherwise) sparks backlash because of the political polarization.

Even if this were true, it's irrelevant. If a government initiates action that sparks a backlash, the government is responsible. If the government didn't also anticipate that backlash, it's incompetent in its duty to its citizenry.

And if it did anticipate it, well that's just worse.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#86

Post by nonethewiser » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #78

buscoquadnary wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I saw it the other way around, when it was first came out the future was uncertain, and there was a lot of confusion the only data we had was untrusted reports from China, I saw a lot of people band together, people looking out for on another general expressions of concern. There were politics involved but it was relatively mild, and ignored by many people it was about two or three months in when much of the…

I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way that many on HN constantly seem to imply that the polarization and politicization of the pandemic was caused by the media, scientists, public health officials or anyone else but the last president and many people in his administration. They were immediately trying to shift blame to anyone but themselves. It was the "China virus" from pretty much day 1. He was literally cros…

I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way that many think Trump was the source of the polarization and not a reaction to it.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#87

Post by JohnTHaller » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

nvelty wrote: post #24

This is a direct result of the (intentionally) punitive nature of vaccine mandates. Broad, heavy-handed actions by the government are the classic spark for societal backlash. A softer approach that focused on positive benefits for having a vax pass versus punishing unvaxxed would probably had better results. Instead, we've pushed (presumably) otherwise law-abiding citizens into using forged documents. This directly u…

We had a big issue way before the vaccine mandates thanks to the absurdity of right-wing media and right-wing politicians' conspiracy theories. And subsequent pushing of ineffective treatments. There are still people here in the US who believe that ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, z-packs, and steroids will save them if they get it. And they're unvaccinated.

My friend's sibling just died two months ago. Otherwise healthy and everything. Not old. But in a red county with lots of Fox News watchers, so they'd avoided the vaccine. Sad thing is, the rest of the family finally talked them into getting it and they were scheduled but got Covid the week before. Dead a month later.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#88

Post by pndy » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #58

Dma54rhs wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The qr code idea in Europe works together with your id. Americans don't want to use ID even for voting, hard to expect to have working vaccination card program. Hence they're left with random papers and the problem on hand.

> Americans don't want to use ID even for voting *many liberal Americans

Pretty sure the US doesn't have an official federal-issued ID, and most of the time driving license works as such. And it seems this applies to the majority of Anglosphere countries.

Here in Poland we have a compulsory IDs, which for over 20 years now are plastic. Recently RFID tags and finger prints were added; there's also a standard biometric photo of face. All of this comes also with electronic and qualified electronic signature which can be used to verify our identity in government services or to sign the digital documents. And yes, we need to have it or the slowly accepted digital version when we want to vote in any elections.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#89

Post by buscoquadnary » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:45 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #78

buscoquadnary wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I saw it the other way around, when it was first came out the future was uncertain, and there was a lot of confusion the only data we had was untrusted reports from China, I saw a lot of people band together, people looking out for on another general expressions of concern. There were politics involved but it was relatively mild, and ignored by many people it was about two or three months in when much of the…

I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way that many on HN constantly seem to imply that the polarization and politicization of the pandemic was caused by the media, scientists, public health officials or anyone else but the last president and many people in his administration. They were immediately trying to shift blame to anyone but themselves. It was the "China virus" from pretty much day 1. He was literally cros…

It is interesting you say that because the first notice I saw of it starting to get politicized was people calling Trump racist for attempting to placing a travel ban from/to China, and for using the phrase China virus, when there is a decent history of naming diseases from where they came from. I think in fact your link attests to that because it's not saying anything about COVID it is all about how Trump is being racist for using the word China flu. Personally I can't stand the guy, but if you believe that the entire virus and COVID response was made entirely politicized by Donald Trump, I'd check your medication because you might just be taking crazy pills in that case as you stated at the beginning.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#90

Post by kube-system » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:48 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #47

The US government's inability to deploy effective mobile validation apps like China is a feature, not a bug. A "legit" handwritten card signed by someone at Walgreens is inherently untrustworthy.

Legit cards are not "signed" by anyone. They're simply vaccination records for the patient. The patient derives their trust in the card from the fact that they were present at their own vaccination.