Live data from Hacker News

Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

twitter.com

81–90 of 464 posts

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#81
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! This is one thing humans are still much better at than AI: taking blame.

AI-aided management decisions can't come soon enough. Decision Model and Notation made big headway on this, but I don't see it discussed. They're fancy decision trees but can handle complex factors and are designed to be intuitive to reason about.

That’s begging for some leaky abstraction to absolutely ruin your business.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The only reason these "stakeholders" have any leverage at all with which to push this is the fact semiconductor fabrication currently costs billions of dollars. So while it is possible for us to make our own freedom-respecting software, freedom-respecting hardware is out of our reach. Hardware manufacturing is concentrated in the hands of few corporations and those are friendly towards the copyright industry…

You could just use FPGAs. They aren't fast, but your homegrown chips won't be either.

Those are also fabricated by huge corporations. No guarantee they won't be compromised by industry or government interests.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#83
post #58

I have a pet theory that all of these recent Google bloopers could be explained easily if you start from the assumption that Google internal incentives promote efforts to cut costs such as storage. "Garbage" docs, inactive email accounts, less search results etc can all be reasonably explained by a desire to not spend money on storage for "low value" data (i.e. data that is unlikely to be accessed in a way that trans…

I don't think there's anything specific to Google. I think the chain of events was basically: 1. Storage is expensive, so software designers and users build tools and habits that are parsimonious with it. Programs would store files in carefully designed binary formats to save space because space was expensive. Users would periodically go through directories on our computers and manually delete old stuff. Apps require…

> I don't think there was anything particularly nefarious or shitty on the part of any participant. It's just the nature of big complex iterated systems with emergent properties.

I find it interesting that one can draw some parallels to physical consumerism and its impact of ecology. We don't generally consider buying day-to-day stuff as nefarious either, until we pay attention to the aggregate impact of the entire supply chain machine, and then it's "80% less polinators" this, and "donated clothes landfills" that. The big difference is that Google as an organization can make the call to - and follow through on - telling users directly to back off if users' consumption patterns themselves become a significant enough liability on the sheets.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hurts me to even think about this. We're headed towards such a bleak future. The only solution I can think of is to kill copyright in order to save computing freedom. Otherwise our computers will eventually no longer be ours.

The surface is larger than just copyright and includes anything the government can enforce in the name of protecting or preventing ... [children, terrorists, money laundering]. Lobbyists wondering why not slip this into appropriations bill and make MS put this in desktop.

I agree. Attempts to regulate cryptography, to force computers to police and snitch on their own users... It's all deeply concerning and all of it depends on their covert ownership of our computers.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#85

15 years ago the first word that came to mind when thinking of Google was “magic”. 10 years ago “useful”. These days it’s just “dread”.

I think dread is a bit over dramatic. I still find utility in Google Maps and GMail. Some products in the Google domain are heading that way but I don't dread Google I treat them as a business with respect to my coupling to them on a case by case basis.

I used to be a Google first, now I am one to look at all options and decide if its worth coupling something else in my life to Google. In many cases its not worth it or even required.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#86
post #81
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI-aided management decisions can't come soon enough. Decision Model and Notation made big headway on this, but I don't see it discussed. They're fancy decision trees but can handle complex factors and are designed to be intuitive to reason about.

That’s begging for some leaky abstraction to absolutely ruin your business.

Management is made of leaky abstractions. I think of course that humans should still be the accountable party, but AI can guide baser decisions so that more time can be spent on the hard problems.

Imagine how many thousands of hours managers have wasted at this point discussing WFH. They should have been figuring out their supply chain and labor strategy.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#87
post #22

"A review cannot be requested for this restriction" ML enforcing rules is bad enough, but not allowing false positives to be corrected is ridiculous. This is why I would never consider g-suite for any business application. Otoh, I think there is a legitimate business to be made helping small businesses and individuals secure themselves against arbitrary behavior from big tech. This kind of thing can have serious cons…

Reminds me of that 70s IBM presentation quote that surfaced recently, "A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision". It's one thing to have a computer flag issues, another to make it responsible for taking action and in this case, making a decision final. Google continues to set poor examples with irresponsible implementations of machine learning. With no accou…

A program can never be held accountable, but the person (or the whole company, or both) who decided that it should make management decisions can.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#88
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long until cloud providers are forced to scan block devices, so you can't even self-host a file erroneously flagged by the ML? (Actually, how long until this is integrated with the "security engine" in CPUs, so you can't even hide with encryption? Everyone is talking about on-device voice-recognition and CSAM recognition, but no doubt the copyright lobby is going to push hard for this as well.)

It hurts me to even think about this. We're headed towards such a bleak future. The only solution I can think of is to kill copyright in order to save computing freedom. Otherwise our computers will eventually no longer be ours.

I don't think we need to kill copyright, but we sure as hell need to control how it's used. To start with, we need to spay and neuter the out of control copyright enforcers, and especially every form of copyfraud.

My previous take on the subject: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22488496

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#89
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of that 70s IBM presentation quote that surfaced recently, "A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision". It's one thing to have a computer flag issues, another to make it responsible for taking action and in this case, making a decision final. Google continues to set poor examples with irresponsible implementations of machine learning. With no accou…

A program can never be held accountable, but the person (or the whole company, or both) who decided that it should make management decisions can.

It's possible to read the original quote was as a warning of exactly that. We should all be very wary of letting our code do the walking because the fault should realistically lie with us, but it's as if the software industry feels invincible, and it's not hard to see why.

Re: Google Drive flags file only containing “1” for copyright infringement

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if they have patented -

Not - as an abstract concept, but perhaps "a method and apparatus for subtracting numbers"

There must be some internet law that states something like "no flippant comment about the absurdities of copyright law is so crazy that a patent troll won't be inspired by it"
Post reply on HN