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Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

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Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#81

Post by beckman466 »

gorjusborg wrote: post #17

This type of 'update' is one reason I tend to stay away from so-called 'smart' devices. If part of the product I've paid for is software, and the company can update it without customer consent at any time, then I can't rely on the product's features. Period. I experienced this myself on the PS4 version of Terraria. I bought a hard-copy of the game. I mastered the controls, and loved them. Terraria was updated one day…

> My feeling is that this behavior should be illegal for purchased products.

Welcome to the Right to Repair movement!

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#82

Post by colinmhayes »

sschueller wrote: post #56
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #27

Not the first time a company has pushed an update that removes important features. To my knowledge the first high-profile instance of this was when Sony updated the PS3 to remove Linux support, which resulted in a successful class-action in the US. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS

Successful for whom? The layers or the consumer? Sadly in many class action cases the "victims" get effectively nothing. The way class action is done in the US it only makes sense for the law firms. I have stacks of class action letters and in almost every case I get exactly zero...

> Successful for whom?

Consumers who don't want products to have features disappear. The main thing class action suites accomplish is punishing the offender so that potential offenders in the future think twice.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#83

Post by francisofascii »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #77
gorjusborg wrote: post #17

This type of 'update' is one reason I tend to stay away from so-called 'smart' devices. If part of the product I've paid for is software, and the company can update it without customer consent at any time, then I can't rely on the product's features. Period. I experienced this myself on the PS4 version of Terraria. I bought a hard-copy of the game. I mastered the controls, and loved them. Terraria was updated one day…

Why don’t the customers use a tablet resting on the treadmill or wall-mounted TV to watch whatever they want?

That is not always practical. Also, why purchase a tablet or install a wall mounted screen, when there is a perfectly good screen right in front of you.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#84

Post by javajosh »

imoverclocked wrote: post #54
gorjusborg wrote: post #17

This type of 'update' is one reason I tend to stay away from so-called 'smart' devices. If part of the product I've paid for is software, and the company can update it without customer consent at any time, then I can't rely on the product's features. Period. I experienced this myself on the PS4 version of Terraria. I bought a hard-copy of the game. I mastered the controls, and loved them. Terraria was updated one day…

This pattern is pervasive. I also dislike needing an app and an internet connection for the most basic functionality with some purchased device. At some point, we need to own the things we buy and that line keeps getting pushed back further and further. Anec-data: I purchased a cooking device for my parents in December and it has a single button to turn it off. The only way to use it is with an app which requires a l…

Not interesting data. The real reason is that it's easier to connect things through a central service. I sometimes email myself for the same reason.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#85

Post by belthesar »

Gwarzo wrote: post #61
jasonlotito wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids, safety, convenience, positive encouragement, all these things help. Not everyone is as privileged as you where you can easily just go outside and leave your home without a care in the world.

What world do you live in where you cannot just "go outside" and be there for a window of time. In what world are you unable to do the above, but perfectly able to have this solved via electronic workout devices.

A non-ableist one, apparently. A transplant patient who is on anti-rejection meds, where they need to protect themselves from a pandemic-level infection that their body refuses to build antibodies for despite numerous vaccination attempts. A person suffering from agoraphobia, where the fear of being outside and even observed is a psychological road block to doing literally anything. Two of many possible reasons for things like this to be a huge help.

Do they need an electronic workout device? Nah, but if you're legitimately helping someone to achieve motivation or be safer in taking care of themselves, then the product has value.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#86

Post by treesknees »

dhimes wrote: post #4

If Nordic is being honest that the issue is safety- preventing users from diddling with their software and accidentally making it unsafe, then they can simply install a browser so the users can view what they wish online.

It's entirely possible. The iFit app which runs on my treadmill is an embedded web browser. From "God Mode" there is an iFit Admin app which reports information such as the embedded chromium version being used for iFit.

I actually walked down to the basement to test this - even when closing the iFit app while in God Mode, the physical controls on the treadmill including speed, incline, the stop button and the magnetic safety key, continue to work as designed. If you close the app then you can't see your current speed, but you can still stop the machine.

That being said, I haven't dug into how the iFit app sends commands or retrieve data from the treadmill's controller. It seems possible that a "rogue" app could somehow interfere with this communication or send its own set of commands to throw you off the machine, but feels very unlikely. Plus, the tablet on my treadmill is running Android 7. I'd be much more afraid of remote exploits on the embedded browser on this ancient OS than someone with physical access loading a malicious app.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#87

Post by mikestew »

Not that NordicTrack cares about purchases from l'il ol' me in the larger scheme of things, this is precisely why we didn't buy a NordicTrack treadmill despite being tickled with our NordicTrack rowing machine: that screen is there for NordicTrack's benefit, not yours. Sure, I'm a software engineer as well as owning a soldering iron and knowing how to use it. But if I've got to unsolder/resolder wires or cut traces on my brand-new machine to get the functionality I thought I paid for, I bought the wrong machine. If I have to use a software hack that is one update away from not working anymore, I have purchased the wrong machine. I'll let others rant about not being able to use the hardware that one paid for, I'm just not going to pay for the HW in the first place. (And, honestly, how many of us on HN need another screen around the house?)

It's disappointing, too, because we're quite satisfied with our NT rowing machine, which was purchased right before the "big screen" models, and we would otherwise recommend it. But now you can't buy the one with the cheap LCD display like we have and just bring your own screen, you have to get proprietary screen models now. So I don't recommend their rowing machines anymore, either.

After much research, we bought a treadmill from Horizon fitness[0]. We've been nothing but happy with it, which is their top-of-the-line 7.8. It has BT for music to play over the built-in speakers, and it works fine with Zwift and even the iFit subscription that NordicTrack pushes (it just won't auto-control the treadmill speed/incline, which is a-okay by me). BT streams your data to Zwift, et. al., including speed/incline/HR. It has a built-in stand for your tablet, though anyone on HN ought to be able to rig some cheap 27" 4k monitor in there somehow (we use a wall-mount for the rowing machine that swivels for general purpose use). The spouse and I have used it with Zwift, iFit, and Apple Fitness+, though Zwift is the only one that cares about data from the BT stream. As running goes I used to be fast, but now I'm just old and still faster than most, and it does everything I need for dark, rainy PNW days. I use it for tempo and intervals on occasion as well, and the one-button presets for interval/recovery are nice so when I'm gasping for breath I just need to be able to push the recovery button.

Anyway, no association whatsoever with Horizon, just a very satisfied customer.

[0] https://www.horizonfitness.com

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#88

Post by technothrasher »

CountDrewku wrote: post #29

I don't understand this obsession with electronic exercise devices. The peloton, that stupid thing that mounts to the wall, treadmills etc. Outside is so much better than all of those. I will 100% run in single digit temperatures with snow on the ground before I touch a treadmill. If I have to be inside it's weight lifting.

You prefer to exercise outside, others of us prefer to exercise on a machine. So what? I'm not sure what the point of your comment is.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#89

Post by reificator »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #75
DevKoala wrote: post #58

This hacks is impressive, but very pointless. A regular treadmill plus an iPad is a much better combo and it goes for $1k less total.

I'd be interested in knowing where to order a 32 inch ipad for $1000.

They didn't say it was identical, they said it was a much better combo.

Re: Locked out of 'God Mode', runners are hacking their treadmills

#90

Post by heavyset_go »

erwincoumans wrote: post #47

Suitable story, hacking walled gardens on HN. Reminds me of the Rigol DS1054Z 50 MHz oscilloscope, that you can trivially 'hack' into the more expensive DS1074Z 75 MHz or DS11074Z 100 MHz scope. Rigol hasn't disabled this hack, even though they can easily do it. They likely loose money if they do so, since customers move to other scopes. Also, some Tesla updates make the experience worse instead of better (V11 update…

Your aside reminds me of the PSP hacking days. Whenever there was an update, you'd have to hold it and check forums to see if it patched your root exploit.
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