Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India • Hacker News Board

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#81

Post by nicbou » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 7:18 AM UTC

grapehut wrote: post #23

I think the far more worrying trend is trying to silence anyone with different political ideologies. Like their handpicked example of a user discussing "'destroý' Islam". Note, they added the quotes around destroy. But the actual content is reasonably thoughtful discussion of appointed supreme court judges and only claims "to end radical islam".

When I was a mod, my policy was to let the idiots speak and the downvotes answer. People should understand that the community is showing them the door, not the mods.

I drew the line at bad behaviour, which usually came in response to unpopular opinions. In other words, I left conservative comments and deleted angry personal attacks in response to them.

Some people did not get it. We had a biweekly "where are the mods" rant. They accused mods of siding with "the Nazis". By that they meant anyone who said anything a conservative person might agree with. Guilt by association.

This is how I learned the term concern trolling, which I understand as someone listening to your arguments in order to debate them. In other words, a debate. Some people were not having it.

We get hiveminds because that's what people ask for.

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#82

Post by picsao » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 8:01 AM UTC

vehemenz wrote: post #30

xupybd wrote: post #21

Is it just me or does a subreddit with only 90k members seem too small to matter? Especially amongst India. Their population is huge, you would need a much larger reach to influence culture.

Agreed. For comparison, the /r/aznidentity subreddit (Americans with Asian ancestry) has half as many members but has much more extremist content. Insofar as Indians are using Reddit, they aren't in /r/india.

No post body was provided.

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#83

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 8:03 AM UTC

grapehut wrote: post #23

I think the far more worrying trend is trying to silence anyone with different political ideologies. Like their handpicked example of a user discussing "'destroý' Islam". Note, they added the quotes around destroy. But the actual content is reasonably thoughtful discussion of appointed supreme court judges and only claims "to end radical islam".

Social media usage in India nowadays includes calls for mass killings of Muslims[1] and there is widespread political momentum towards essentially establishing a Hindu nationalist society.

Over the last few decades India has seen significant violence against Muslims[2] so to label this sort of agitation as a "different political ideology" is, to put it mildly, bizarre.

Given the rifts that social media has managed to cause in multi-racial/ethnic/religious societies with any form of harmony going out of the window as extremism spreads uncontrolled through networks this kind of lack of response is a disaster. If you want a functioning multiracial society you should look towards Singapore rather than transplanting the typical Western discourse about 'silencing' on foreign countries.

And as to the example, if I were to suggest we "destroy Christianity" in the US by means of using the supreme court you would be unconcerned as long as I qualify that we're only going to eradicate "radical Christianity"?

[1]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/24/india-hindu-event-...

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_Muslims_in_In...

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#84

Post by ngc248 » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 8:22 AM UTC

tigerInATurvy wrote: post #22

robbedpeter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Otherwise, who decides? Nobody is qualified to define allowable speech and thinking. Exceptions to any attempt at sets of "allowable speech" rules are trivially produced. Concepts like hate and lies are vague and nebulous. The best you can do to prevent actual harm in the real world is allow unfettered speech and discussion. Speech is thinking. Non-consensual thought control is evil. Consensual speech and discu…

In India, there have been pages created listing Muslim girls and women for sale. Using photos and real names. And the men describe the various ways they want to use their "property" once they buy them. If you were a Muslim in India, facing fears of state-encouraged real life violence, what sort of conversation would you like to have with these people? Are you going to look at a page like that and think: "I'm so thank…

>> there have been pages created listing Muslim girls and women for sale. Using photos and real names.

What ... can you show some proof?

this is getting into dangerous territory here .... making unsubstantiated claims. These claims are quite extraordinary and require extraordinary proof.

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#85

Post by coolso » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 8:28 AM UTC

james-redwood wrote: post #80

coolso wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure the government tried paying people to install toilets in their homes but most refused and all continue to go in the streets as well - the occasional concerned citizen has even been assaulted for requesting that people not do it.

This is patently false. I spent several weeks in India for work in 2015, and while I saw many strange things on my trip, this was not one of them. I spent time in four big cities, and even took a drive through some rather rural and poor areas. One would think that if it were remotely common you would at least see it once over the course of a month and a half. Everywhere I went had adequate sanitation facilities, and…

> This is patently false

But, it’s actually not. It’s a well known established fact.

> “In 2015, one report estimated that 522 million Indians defecated in the open and in fields.” [0]

[0]: https://newrepublic.com/article/153549/indias-futile-war-ope...

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#86

Post by inglor_cz » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 8:45 AM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #78

beebmam wrote: post #28

I'd like to understand why so many young people find extremist content so persuasive and engaging. I can't stand it, and I instantly close any website that allows for extreme content.

Honestly, because of inequality. When it becomes too difficult for people to live the life that society tells them everyone should live, people begin to lose faith in the system and that's when extremism takes root. People will latch on to whatever 'tribe' they feel they belong to and create a scapegoat for whatever they think is the problem. Think communists vs. capitalists, ethnic group A vs ethnic group B, religio…

Beware of trying to explain everything with a single variable (in this case, inequality). For example, the 1968 unrest in France did not happen because of an economic shock. And some economic shocks did not produce meaningful mass movements.

Young people tend to be edgy in general and they lack the experience to recognize the slippery slope potential from edginess towards dystopia. Most of the time, the edginess stays on the Internet, though, and only a tiny percentage overflows to the streets. The human civilization is trending away from the "active rioter" towards the "keyboard warrior" mode of operation. Riots used to be much worse, even in the 1980s, than they are now. Possibly the Internet acts as a surrogate channel for all that hate?

What inequality does is, IMHO, help recruit older and more experienced people to a radical movement that would otherwise fizzle out without massive support. The Yellow Vests in France were a good example. Once the lower middle class lost the ability to support their lifestyle, they lashed out in a way more destructive way that random students could.

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#87

Post by Mikeb85 » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 8:55 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #86

Mikeb85 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, because of inequality. When it becomes too difficult for people to live the life that society tells them everyone should live, people begin to lose faith in the system and that's when extremism takes root. People will latch on to whatever 'tribe' they feel they belong to and create a scapegoat for whatever they think is the problem. Think communists vs. capitalists, ethnic group A vs ethnic group B, religio…

Beware of trying to explain everything with a single variable (in this case, inequality ). For example, the 1968 unrest in France did not happen because of an economic shock. And some economic shocks did not produce meaningful mass movements. Young people tend to be edgy in general and they lack the experience to recognize the slippery slope potential from edginess towards dystopia. Most of the time, the edginess sta…

During the 1960's the gini coefficient in France was nearly 50. Now it's in the 20's.

Considering the French protests were started by leftists literally complaining about inequality, and that inequality was much higher then than today, I think my explanation holds up.

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#88

Post by xupybd » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 8:56 AM UTC

pyuser583 wrote: post #69

QuarterReptile wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I feel like you're describing the intellectual vacuum that is Reddit. I've found conversation here to be much more nuanced, at least since the start of 2021.

I haven’t seen much difference in attitudes towards religion between Reddit and HN. Both very dismissive. HN is more tech focused, so I get its not what folks are here to discuss (generally).

I've found people here to engage more and explore religion respectfully most of the time. Reddit however, I might be looking in the wrong place but respect is not something I find. Often people pick the most expressive terms they can to ensure everyone is aware of their lack of respect.

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#89

Post by inglor_cz » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 9:01 AM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #87

inglor_cz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beware of trying to explain everything with a single variable (in this case, inequality ). For example, the 1968 unrest in France did not happen because of an economic shock. And some economic shocks did not produce meaningful mass movements. Young people tend to be edgy in general and they lack the experience to recognize the slippery slope potential from edginess towards dystopia. Most of the time, the edginess sta…

During the 1960's the gini coefficient in France was nearly 50. Now it's in the 20's. Considering the French protests were started by leftists literally complaining about inequality, and that inequality was much higher then than today, I think my explanation holds up.

I think any explanation should also explain all the instances of countries where protests did not happen, even though inequality was high.

The best evidence for causality would be to demonstrate some kind of "dose and response effect", which isn't easy. The dreaded word "culture" tends to creep in, because some countries seem to have a lot more riot-y history than others. (France vs. UK vs. Spain).

Re: Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India

#90

Post by JetAlone » Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 9:20 AM UTC

antics9 wrote: post #8

geofft wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these ideologies are both extreme and irreconcilable, why is it my ideology that has to shut itself up and let their ideology flourish? If our ideas are outlandish to each other, what is the goal of conversation in the public spaces, unless one side is willing to give up their ideology? If we look at each other in disgust, why is my disgust invalid?

I belive the point they were trying to make is that noone needs to give up their ideology. Keep it but hang out in public spaces where other or opposing ideologies are present. Even if someone does not want to change their position, they can still learn and understand why someone has an opposing or different one. There are always spaces in which nonviolent or noncoercive interaction can exist.

Most people think they know they understand by now; the other side is perilously silly at best, or prefers they were dead in the worst case. And they're right so often that this heuristic is too useful not to act on. I don't blame anyone for banning or flaming anyone anymore, given that. And I admire anyone who can still have that unevenly prized nonviolent noncoercive conversation. Especially if it can actually be meaningful and not just a tired re-treading .