Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

muted.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 94 posts

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#81

Post by soyyo »

A superior method for working with scales it's simply learning the theory behind them.

For instance if you learn that a harmonic minor scale is made of 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7 you can find the notes of that scale in any key very quickly, for instance Bb harmonic minor would be Bb C Db Eb F Gb A

However this requires that you understand what are 1, 2, 3b 4, 4#, etc, and have enough practice in translating it to notes to do it quickly.

Also if you learn this, then finding the chords that can be derived from any scale becomes super easy.

Now I understand that this a hustle for many people because of the initial effort that requires before is actually usable, and it's more easy to use tools such as the one presented, I just wanted you to know that there is something better albeit harder.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#82

Post by Kye »

soyyo wrote: post #81

A superior method for working with scales it's simply learning the theory behind them. For instance if you learn that a harmonic minor scale is made of 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7 you can find the notes of that scale in any key very quickly, for instance Bb harmonic minor would be Bb C Db Eb F Gb A However this requires that you understand what are 1, 2, 3b 4, 4#, etc, and have enough practice in translating it to notes to do it…

I think it comes down to what motivates your music, and what you prioritize. My focus is sound design, so the quicker I can get melodies written, the better. Now you might reasonably think: "but if you memorize all this stuff, you won't need your handy app with an interactive circle of fifths!"[0]

And that's true! The trouble is, the last time I tried learning using techniques like this, I could never remember it with any amount of practice, and it made me so down about music that I quit for years. If I cared much about melodies, improvising, and/or performance, I might have the drive to invest effort past that hurdle, but I don't. I did have the drive for sound design--which is at least as complicated as foundational western music theory--because the whole thing fascinates me, so that's what I prioritize.

[0] Piano Companion Pro. Worth the lifetime purchase ($12). https://www.songtive.com/products/piano-companion

I come up with chord progressions in my DAW and use them as "ghost notes" to paint a melody over.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#83

Post by zozbot234 »

soyyo wrote: post #81

A superior method for working with scales it's simply learning the theory behind them. For instance if you learn that a harmonic minor scale is made of 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7 you can find the notes of that scale in any key very quickly, for instance Bb harmonic minor would be Bb C Db Eb F Gb A However this requires that you understand what are 1, 2, 3b 4, 4#, etc, and have enough practice in translating it to notes to do it…

> For instance if you learn that a harmonic minor scale is made of 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7 you can find the notes of that scale in any key very quickly, for instance Bb harmonic minor would be Bb C Db Eb F Gb A

It's even easier in many cases to learn harmonic minor as a natural minor w/ a sharpened 7th, borrowed from the parallel major scale. (This doesn't work so well for Bb minor, since its relative major is a pretty exotic Db major; in this case, it's in fact easier to start from the parallel major and find the actual scale degrees.)

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#84

Post by donbrae »

avodonosov wrote: post #56

What javascript apis they use to create sites like that? To play instrument notes at different pitches, and to play notes simultaneously?

Looks like it’s using Tone.js[0] with a sample library called ‘Salamander Grand Piano V3’[1].

Tone.js is great. I’m using it to convert MIDI files and sync visuals on a jazz piano tutorial website I’m building[2].

[0] https://tonejs.github.io

[1] https://archive.org/details/SalamanderGrandPianoV3

[2] https://www.jazzkeys.fyi

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#85

Post by hamburglar »

soyyo wrote: post #81

A superior method for working with scales it's simply learning the theory behind them. For instance if you learn that a harmonic minor scale is made of 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7 you can find the notes of that scale in any key very quickly, for instance Bb harmonic minor would be Bb C Db Eb F Gb A However this requires that you understand what are 1, 2, 3b 4, 4#, etc, and have enough practice in translating it to notes to do it…

In my experience, learning the theory behind them helps you understand how to derive the scale in your head but it doesn’t actually help you get muscle memory for the specific patterns. This is like multiplication tables versus knowing how to multiply.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#86

Post by hamburglar »

ulnarkressty wrote: post #74

You might want to double check the fingerings, for example[0] the F major scale has Bb played with 4th finger, because it would be impossible with the 1st. [0] https://en.piano-fingering.org/flat-keys/1-flat-f-major/f-ma...

Just as a bit of UX feedback, it's difficult to read this method of specifying the fingering. You display a finger-to-note lookup when you really want a note-to-finger lookup. It would be more useful to specify e.g. "left hand: 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3" and "right hand: 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5" for learning purposes.

Edit: most awesome would actually be an animation of the hand playing the scale with cross-unders and whatnot but that sounds like a lot of work.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#87

Post by robbrown451 »

yesenadam wrote: post #73
robbrown451 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are differences between scale and key, yes, but they often are interchangeable and overlap. For instance that wikipedia page for A minor doesn't say "A minor scale" nor "A minor key"... you can see they treat it (there and elsewhere) as if they are essentially the same thing in most usages. When necessary they make the distinction. Another example from Wikipedia, from the "key" page: "In music theory, the key o…

Ok thank you! Much appreciated. Interesting topic.

Indeed. Music has complex and confusing nomenclature.... I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#88

Post by 4WIW »

soyyo wrote: post #81

A superior method for working with scales it's simply learning the theory behind them. For instance if you learn that a harmonic minor scale is made of 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7 you can find the notes of that scale in any key very quickly, for instance Bb harmonic minor would be Bb C Db Eb F Gb A However this requires that you understand what are 1, 2, 3b 4, 4#, etc, and have enough practice in translating it to notes to do it…

It can be even simpler with intervals: 1 is a half-tone, 2 is a whole tone

Major scale: 2 2 1 2 2 2 1 Minor scale: 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 etc

They sum up to 12 (octave)

Now that you got the theory, practice playing them evenly from every note and make sure they sound right.

Fingerings are a separate story though.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#89

Post by dwaltrip »

soyyo wrote: post #81

A superior method for working with scales it's simply learning the theory behind them. For instance if you learn that a harmonic minor scale is made of 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7 you can find the notes of that scale in any key very quickly, for instance Bb harmonic minor would be Bb C Db Eb F Gb A However this requires that you understand what are 1, 2, 3b 4, 4#, etc, and have enough practice in translating it to notes to do it…

Do you have any good resources / links for a beginner who wants to understand the fundamental theory behind chords, scales, etc? Especially in a way that lets me easily re-derive stuff and not memorize as much.

E.g. I just learned from my roommates that I can form the major chord for any note by adding the keys that are 4 half-steps and 7 half-steps higher. And then swap out the 4 half-steps higher key for 3 half-steps higher to make the minor chord. Very cool :)

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#90

Post by dragonwriter »

koide wrote: post #67

I've always been a melodic instrument player and have never had formal theory training - I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line. I know there are many alternatives and that the music sheets usually have the matching chords. I want to write my own and I struggle to fin…

> Can anyone recommend resources to learn this (and tell me if harmonization is the proper term)?

Harmonization is the right word.

http://openmusictheory.com/

(But, as the name suggests, it's not a shortcut rules-of-thumb bypassing the theory kind of resource.)

Post reply on HN