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Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

reuters.com

81–90 of 189 posts

Re: Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

#81

This will be interesting. Some background for the discussion: - Germany has a different take on freedom of speech from the US. There are things that you cannot say (holocaust denial, inciting racial violence). We can argue about this, but it's deeply ingrained in the legal system and unrealistic to change - Germany has a special law regulating responsibilities and content moderation in social media (NetzDG, think sec…

It might not be a popular opinion, but a group chat of 1000+ people is less messaging(1) and more either social network (through a badly implemented one) or a something like a publishing channel (if used mainly one directional).

(1): Messaging in the sense of a digital continuation of letter writing.

Still, it's a stupid move.

There are endless alternatives.

And the problem isn't really caused or amplified by Telegram, Telegram is just an arbitrary chosen tool which happen to meet the requirements for the given use case.

It's not even the best tool out there for the given use case.

In the end this is nothing more then trying to find a scapegoat to blame a out of control situation on. A situation caused by years of political/social negligence of increasingly out-of-touch political parties combined with out-of-touch media.

The choice of choosing it as a scapegoat already shows how out of touch it is, I mean like did they forget that it's one of the most widely used messengers in Germany by all parts of the society?? You are literally telling people which have gotten increasingly suspect of the government and media that the tool they are nicely using since years is supposedly easier. Putting people into a very obvious perceived difference between their reality and what you tell them, without a good reasoning basis, is a pretty sure fire way to lose more trust.

Re: Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

#82
post #21

Quoted post unavailable.

You mean people who organize protests without permit (because they don't like the mandates for masks and minimum separation that would come with the permit), and when confronted with police claim they are just a couple hundred people who happen to be on a walk at the same time by pure coincidence.

I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it was just that. Police here deserve to be stress tested and in principle you can spontaneously declare something to be an assembly by naming someone the assembly leader. The issue is their message and the right wing / nazis that they are walking among them.

Re: Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

#85

This will be interesting. Some background for the discussion: - Germany has a different take on freedom of speech from the US. There are things that you cannot say (holocaust denial, inciting racial violence). We can argue about this, but it's deeply ingrained in the legal system and unrealistic to change - Germany has a special law regulating responsibilities and content moderation in social media (NetzDG, think sec…

- Germany has a different take on freedom of speech from the US.

Germany has freedom of opinion, they explicitly decided against American style freedom of speech after WW2

Re: Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

#87
post #13

This will be interesting. Some background for the discussion: - Germany has a different take on freedom of speech from the US. There are things that you cannot say (holocaust denial, inciting racial violence). We can argue about this, but it's deeply ingrained in the legal system and unrealistic to change - Germany has a special law regulating responsibilities and content moderation in social media (NetzDG, think sec…

Sadly, cutting out Germany means that you'd eventually have to cut out the entire EU. If you just block Germany they're going to push on the EU to take up this fight for them. It'll all be in the name of "stopping online abuse" or something like that. Germany, in general, seems to be a very poor country to do digital business compared to most other places. This is the same country that required (requires?) streamers…

[...] to stream to more than 500 people.

More than 20,000 simultaneous viewers on averaged over a six months period and if the content is considered relevant for public opinion formation.

Re: Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

#88
post #21

Quoted post unavailable.

Readers beware: Don't get fooled by this comment. These "Spaziergänge" are an unholy mixture of racists, anti-democratic groups, anti-vaxxers and lots more. The far right has found "new friends" in the people critizing the Covid rules of the government. They are now marching side by side, obviously trying to make their far right positions look "not that bad" by blending in with the others. Yesterday they were marchin…

The answer to that is to counterorganise, civil disruption of their protests by other members of society, not repression by the government.

Re: Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

#89
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At she same time, Telegram gets praised in German media when it comes to allowing supporting pro western activist and opposition in Belarus, Russia, Hong-Kong and other “enemy” states. It's hilarious to watch both praising and bashing Telegram in the same evening news, and how no journalist seems to care.

So they're mentioning both the good and bad uses of something. What's wrong?

Telegram's distinct feature is the lack of state surveillance. This allows activists and oppositions all over the world to use it. But not only in Belarus Hong Kong and Russia, but also in Germany...

Re: Germany doesn't rule out closing Telegram – interior minister

#90
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

say what you want there are stickers all over Hamburg asking you to join telegram channels if you need drugs, if you are racist or a so called "querdenker". It may not be the main use of telegram but if you are a member of the public only seeing these kind of stickers everywhere would make me worry as well.

I don't see the issue. People (should) have a right to meet other people with similar interests and organise.

Organize what? Hate? Violence? Countries have been invaded for allowing certain like-minded people to meet and organize things within thier boarders. Lets not pretend that all speech should be free. Every country on earth limits criminal activity, limits those wanting to organize violence or rampant illegality.
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