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A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

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Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#81

Post by BlueTemplar »

jiggunjer wrote: post #30
causi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it should be free. Quite the opposite. It should charge the user per-e-mail on an at-cost basis. It's a utility, not a hand-out. Think post office. Do you punish people for sending spam? Only by making them pay for every mail they send. Do you filter spam, if so, how. On the receiving end. A plugin system would let people choose to subscribe to updated blocklists and filtering rules, just like modern a…

I think if people had to pay per email, email wouldn't have become as big as it is. Especially since in your scenario compromised credentials could incur financial losses. Turning it into a paid utility would cripple it. For many people, email is synonymous with free digital communication. Ideally such an essential service should not discriminate against homeless people or people with disabilities.

Then we should first make sure that a computer and Internet access are luxuries rather than necessities.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#82

Post by moffkalast »

qybaz wrote: post #67
causi wrote: post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

In this day and age of censorship, I feel the same about web hosting. The American government should provide their citizens with a small space of hosting to share their thoughts.

I do hope that web 3 brings a DNS service that can be bought once and owned forever that nobody can tear even from your cold dead hands. I'm not holding my breath though.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#83

Post by vnorilo »

cycomanic wrote: post #49
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

Yep - Here in Finland, just over the bay in the north, the Estonian e-prescription system is often quoted as much leaner, meaner and more functional than our own borked attempt, at a fraction of the cost.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#84

Post by merlinscholz »

bigger_inside wrote: post #3
causi wrote: post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

also, (or: alternatively?) one that can't be/won't be blocked by the centralized services' spam filters. The biggest hurdle to running your own email server nowadays isn't the online time or the data volume or anything; it's that the existing institutions don't recognize you as part of the institutional club and block your messages... btw, Germany did this a decade ago: giving everyone an email account with the natio…

Speaking of Germany, do you mean De-Mail? Because while it is similar to email, it is not email compatible and had a lot of shortcomings.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#85

Post by darau1 »

jve wrote: post #56
Demcox wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea alot. Too bad the app thorws errors left and right with Gmail and Live making it unuseable to me...

I set it up with gmail (It offered Oauth login which I did) and tried to chat with my exchange. First ping-pong had 0 errors on Android.

I've also used it successfully with gmail, and others.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#86

Post by upofadown »

Arathorn wrote: post #52

> As j. b. crawford notes, the prospect for another federated, Internet wide communication system seem very remote at this point in time, so email is it. I really don’t think this is true, and is defeatist at best. SIP and XMPP both had a good shot at creating a federated Internet-wide communication system, and we are doing our best to build one with Matrix or die trying.

A short message instant messaging system can not replace a long message offline capable system like email. They are fundamentally different things.

The achievable security is significantly higher for an offline capable medium for example:

* https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=em:emailvsim

It is clear to me at least that we are stuck with at least 2 problems here. I have wondered if you could at least generalize the two modes in a way that would allow you to have one client and let the user decide.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#88

Post by causi »

jiggunjer wrote: post #30
causi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it should be free. Quite the opposite. It should charge the user per-e-mail on an at-cost basis. It's a utility, not a hand-out. Think post office. Do you punish people for sending spam? Only by making them pay for every mail they send. Do you filter spam, if so, how. On the receiving end. A plugin system would let people choose to subscribe to updated blocklists and filtering rules, just like modern a…

I think if people had to pay per email, email wouldn't have become as big as it is. Especially since in your scenario compromised credentials could incur financial losses. Turning it into a paid utility would cripple it. For many people, email is synonymous with free digital communication. Ideally such an essential service should not discriminate against homeless people or people with disabilities.

Turning it into a paid utility would cripple it. I don't think I've made it clear enough that this is a proposed addition to the current ecosystem.

Especially since in your scenario compromised credentials could incur financial losses

Why would you be liable for that? An equivalent of the FDIC would work fine.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#89

Post by jiggunjer »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #81
jiggunjer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if people had to pay per email, email wouldn't have become as big as it is. Especially since in your scenario compromised credentials could incur financial losses. Turning it into a paid utility would cripple it. For many people, email is synonymous with free digital communication. Ideally such an essential service should not discriminate against homeless people or people with disabilities.

Then we should first make sure that a computer and Internet access are luxuries rather than necessities.

Since we're regressing, maybe make water and electricity luxuries too.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#90

Post by BlueTemplar »

aero-glide2 wrote: post #69
dqv wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get it. I was waiting for you to say “in favor of…” but you never got to that part. Let email die in favor of what? What is the viable alternative? Not a single messaging app I’ve used comes close to email. And I can’t use one messaging app, I have to have 6! I would be way more willing to move on from email if a solid viable alternative came along. XMPP, for example, is still too ephemeral and barely anyone…

I was suprised to learn WhatsApp uses XMPP. Would be nice if all popular chat applications are interoperable.

"Is based on" rather than "uses" - AFAIK they deliberately broke compatibility ?

(Ditto with Facebook Messenger and at least one of the Google chats ?)

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