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John Madden has died

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

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Re: John Madden has died

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, nothing I said was "hateful." If you choose to publicly insult successful, highly-regarded, widely-loved people, don't be surprised when others point out that you sound stupid and are likely in the wrong.

So in other words, you've never heard him broadcast. Thanks.

No idea what gives you that impression. Why would I be defending a random person I simply read a Wikipedia article about? Of course I heard him broadcast football games. Hundreds of times, from the mid-80's on. I have a pile of videotapes of games he did with Pat Summerall (who was also amazing in the booth). I was lucky enough to have a personal conversation with him once.

He increased my knowledge and understanding of football immensely, and I'm certainly not alone. His contemporary broadcasters, like Cosell & Meredith, had no idea how to break down a nickel defense or the ability to point out the key block that opened a hole for Walter Payton or gave Troy Aikman an extra second in the pocket to find a receiver deep. John Madden did that consistently for two decades, with a passion and exuberance that was unmatched. He was able to clearly explain why Lawrence Taylor and Reggie White were so effective at causing chaos defensively -- but also, in the rare cases when they were neutralized, how o-lineman did so and what blocking schemes were frustrating them. He brought attention to players, especially lineman, who were generally ignored, and explained the concepts of blitzing and stunting and pulling and various defensive fronts to the masses, both why they worked and also how opposing coaches strategized around them.

If you weren't able to absorb any of his concepts and wisdom, if it wasn't "important" to you, well, that's your problem, but publicly posting so doesn't take away from Madden's greatness.

Re: John Madden has died

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh, yeah, that’s not really cool. I wonder how many times he got away with that?

Likely zero. "boulos" was probably tapping away at something on his phone or listening to headphones and didn't respond when the employee at the deli counter yelled "Next." Or maybe, it was as simple as an 80-something year-old guy not feeling comfortable leaving his 80-something year-old wife at home alone for long. Whatever happened, boulous is still so bitter about it that he felt it necessary to post this story o…

I'm not sure how you read 'bitter' into his story.

Seems like OP just had a moment of realisation that the cultural elites have similar desires to the common folk and wanted to relay that minor connection to the man

Re: John Madden has died

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely zero. "boulos" was probably tapping away at something on his phone or listening to headphones and didn't respond when the employee at the deli counter yelled "Next." Or maybe, it was as simple as an 80-something year-old guy not feeling comfortable leaving his 80-something year-old wife at home alone for long. Whatever happened, boulous is still so bitter about it that he felt it necessary to post this story o…

I'm not sure how you read 'bitter' into his story. Seems like OP just had a moment of realisation that the cultural elites have similar desires to the common folk and wanted to relay that minor connection to the man

If that's what he wanted to get across, he could have just stated that both he and John Madden were both on line to get a sandwich somewhere. That actually would have been somewhat endearing. There's absolutely no reason to bring up the part about cutting in line -- let alone making that the focus of the story -- unless he wanted to portray John Madden as some kind of jerk (which, as all of today's tributes have demonstrated, is the polar opposite of what he actually was).

Yes, a person who feels that's necessary to do, on the day the man died, is mighty bitter about something.

Re: John Madden has died

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Off-Topic: ... If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

I would say the demographic of HN, being a plurality of American males, grew up watching football called by Madden or played videos games with his name on it.

There's a reason intellectual gratification is the bar and the goal for topicality, not emotional catharsis or pop-cultural notoriety. If simply being popular with American males became the standard, this place would degenerate into Reddit.

Re: John Madden has died

#85
post #30

I ran into John Madden a few years ago at A.G. Ferrari in Soma (he had a residence nearby at the St Regis). He cut in line in front of me, to get his seemingly daily sandwich. The lady behind the counter and I let it slide. I'm glad I didn't quote the game (or worse, say "boom, tough actin tinactin"), but it was definitely interesting to have thought "Huh, what a wild life. Now he's just an old man who wants a sandwi…

Madden definitely had a hulking, physical presence about him. I had grown up listening to his broadcasts with Pat Summerall and played Madden on various systems. Fast forward about 10+ years and I had moved to San Francisco and frequented The Grove near Yerba Beuna. I am terrible at recognizing celebrities in real life, but I immediately recognized him when he walked in. I had already ordered so I didn't notice if he cut anyone in line... one of the few times I can remember being starstruck.

Re: John Madden has died

#86
post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

I would argue John Madden is an important figure in tech history by endorsing one of the most popular video game franchises in the world, and moreover, one that brought video gaming into the mainstream.

no, it’s because he’s a white guy and kobe was not. note that it doesn’t require explicit racism, just implicit bias, to create such disparities (though it would be statistically unlikely that no explicit racists contributed to this state of affairs).

Re: John Madden has died

#87
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the demographic of HN, being a plurality of American males, grew up watching football called by Madden or played videos games with his name on it.

There's a reason intellectual gratification is the bar and the goal for topicality, not emotional catharsis or pop-cultural notoriety. If simply being popular with American males became the standard, this place would degenerate into Reddit.

I think the occasional discussion of a notable person's death is an exception to the rule.

I think this would be a less controversial opinion if the deceased were a well known artist, but because Madden "only" is an icon to three generations of people by shaping the game of football and sports video games, it's too pedestrian.

Re: John Madden has died

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue John Madden is an important figure in tech history by endorsing one of the most popular video game franchises in the world, and moreover, one that brought video gaming into the mainstream.

no, it’s because he’s a white guy and kobe was not. note that it doesn’t require explicit racism, just implicit bias, to create such disparities (though it would be statistically unlikely that no explicit racists contributed to this state of affairs).

I'm a Black guy and very much of the activist mindset, but that's just not a reasonable comparison. The first John Madden Football came out in 1988, when Kobe was 10 years old.

Jordan vs. Bird came out that same year, which was a cool game. Michael Jordan had all the opportunity to be a better franchise maker, but AFAIK, the next effort he lent his name to was Chaos In The Windy City, and it simply wasn't a very good game, let alone a franchise. Jordan (and Shaq) were conspicuously absent from most NBA products, having negotiated video game rights prior to the NBA negotiating collectively. This is all from memory, so I may not be 100% on this.

I don't know if John Madden did anything particularly special or if he just got a bit lucky, but my point is he is embedded in tech history.

Re: John Madden has died

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it’s because he’s a white guy and kobe was not. note that it doesn’t require explicit racism, just implicit bias, to create such disparities (though it would be statistically unlikely that no explicit racists contributed to this state of affairs).

I'm a Black guy and very much of the activist mindset, but that's just not a reasonable comparison. The first John Madden Football came out in 1988, when Kobe was 10 years old. Jordan vs. Bird came out that same year, which was a cool game. Michael Jordan had all the opportunity to be a better franchise maker, but AFAIK, the next effort he lent his name to was Chaos In The Windy City, and it simply wasn't a very good…

i wasn't denying that madden had a tech tie-in via a video game endorsement deal, but rather, noting that implicit racism plays a role in his memorialization being arbitrarily 'on-topic' and upvoted here as opposed to kobe, whose memorial posts were viciously suppressed. kobe had a tech investment fund in LA and was developing his own media/tech company, so he's arguably more connected to the tech industry despite he's notoriety largely coming from playing basketball.

madden indeed got lucky, as he didn't do much more than hawk his name & voice to EA. he wasn't personally developing or marketing the games, so his tie to tech is pretty tenuous.

Re: John Madden has died

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you read 'bitter' into his story. Seems like OP just had a moment of realisation that the cultural elites have similar desires to the common folk and wanted to relay that minor connection to the man

If that's what he wanted to get across, he could have just stated that both he and John Madden were both on line to get a sandwich somewhere. That actually would have been somewhat endearing. There's absolutely no reason to bring up the part about cutting in line -- let alone making that the focus of the story -- unless he wanted to portray John Madden as some kind of jerk (which, as all of today's tributes have demo…

Yeah, nah, I think you've missed the point of the guy's post all together. Understandable if you're grieving the loss of someone.
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