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Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

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Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#81

Post by AussieWog93 »

rectang wrote: post #69
AussieWog93 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those articles contained a shred of evidence to suggest that CPS will take your kids away from you on a whim.

Well, you just moved the goalposts from "what prompts a visit", past "what gets your kids taken away", all the way to "what gets your kids taken away on a whim ". I agree that CPS is extraordinarily unlikely to take your kids away "on a whim". And yet, that doesn't mean that innocent folks have nothing to fear from a CPS visit. The first article clearly shows that CPS will visit for any report at all, no matter how b…

> Well, you just moved the goalposts from "what prompts a visit"

Fair point. I've just heard so many people make that argument (that your kids will be taken away by the government) that I filled in the blanks.

You're absolutely correct in terms of "getting a visit", and your links back that up.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#82

Post by usrbinbash »

reidjs wrote: post #53
copo233 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "go over well."

I suspect they might take it as endangering the baby’s wellbeing to save a few bucks. The baby industry has got quite the stranglehold on some people.

What people "take it as", and what facts are, are sometimes 2 very different things.

The baby box is a blessing for many families, and it's also much more than the box (which btw. is not a cheap piece of cardboard but comes complete with an insulated mattress and bedding made of high quality materials): there are clothes, diapers, hygienic goods, etc.

And last but not least, it's also a strong symbolic gesture: Society saying: "Don't worry, we got your back. You're not alone, we are all in this together, and we help each other."

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#83

Post by whatshisface »

songzme wrote: post #30

My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor). Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always…

Don't forget about wet cardboard smell, which is full of weird volatile organic compounds.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#84

Post by onion2k »

axegon_ wrote: post #75
smoe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if saying it’s a beautiful message does the initiative justice. It was introduced all the way back in 1938 for low income families at a time Finland was quite a bit a poorer country. I remember reading that a big goal initially was to reduce child mortality rate. One only gets the box if you visit a doctor during pregnancy for consultations which often wasn’t the case back then. But I don’t have source a…

I'm talking about today: Finland is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. In that aspect, it's mostly symbolic.

They continue the policy largely as a symbolic gesture now, but it's an important one that serves as a reminder of how their country grew to be wealthy.

Finland is one of the wealthiest countries today because of policies like this. The government has helped lift Finland's poorest out of poverty over the past 80 years, and made it feel like a country where raising a baby is essentially the same regardless of your income.

Making sure every baby's parents have the resources it needs to grow up healthy and well-educated is how you build a society where everyone wants to contribute to it improving.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#85

Post by daenz »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #79
daenz wrote: post #47

>It's a tradition that dates back to the 1930s and it's designed to give all children in Finland, no matter what background they're from, an equal start in life. That's like saying that because we have public school, all kids have an equal education. It's plain wrong. It doesn't work unless you force everyone to use the box and force everyone to go to public schools.

I don't get what your comment is trying to say. If someone doesn't want to take the box they take the cash. If they take the box and immediately throw it into trash that is on them. Everyone still gets equal start.

Equal start...when you disregard all the pre-existing advantages and disadvantages that people have accumulated generationally. "Equal start" apparently means "equal bare minimum" not "everyone starting from the same place."

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#86

Post by t43562 »

geoduck14 wrote: post #42
songzme wrote: post #30

My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor). Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always…

I have several kids. Let me share some experiences with you: A card board box is probably fine starting out, but your baby will out grow it. The sleeping container should have walls high enough to prevent him/her from climbing out - this might take 9 months, but younwill want it You NEED to remove all fluf and excess padding in your DIY "crib". Babies can suffocate on cute "fluffy" blankets If you build a wooden crib…

Just for balance - I bought a crib and we never used it. My daughter only stayed asleep when next to us.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#87

Post by Hamuko »

masklinn wrote: post #70
axegon_ wrote: post #2

Come to think of it, this is great thinking. Sure, it's mostly symbolic but the message itself is beautiful: Finland is a wealthy nation and even in wealthy nations people don't get equal start: surely you'd have better options when your dad is an F1 world champion than the local plumber, but even so, this serves as a nice reminder. Sort of reminds me of a short story written about a century ago(and only one English…

> Sure, it's mostly symbolic Is it? The maternity box is worth a lot, and that the box itself doubles up as a crib (by design) seems like a huge convenience.

FWIW, you can actually choose a cash payment (170 euro) instead of receiving the maternity package, but 95% of first-time mothers choose the maternity package and two thirds of all mothers.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#88

Post by antris »

onion2k wrote: post #84
axegon_ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about today: Finland is one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. In that aspect, it's mostly symbolic.

They continue the policy largely as a symbolic gesture now, but it's an important one that serves as a reminder of how their country grew to be wealthy. Finland is one of the wealthiest countries today because of policies like this. The government has helped lift Finland's poorest out of poverty over the past 80 years, and made it feel like a country where raising a baby is essentially the same regardless of your inc…

> They continue the policy largely as a symbolic gesture now, but it's an important one that serves as a reminder of how their country grew to be wealthy.

The baby box definitely has practical value for families. Even though Finland is a rich country overall, poor Finnish people exist and the price level for necessities is high. For poor families, this box is a lifesaver. And even for those who could afford everything in the box, it's still a great way to make sure that the baby gets all the basics they need without having to rely on parents remembering and spending time shopping. Ask any Finnish parent, pretty much all of them would disagree that it's just a symbolic thing.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#89

Post by params »

cranekam wrote: post #77
songzme wrote: post #30

My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor). Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always…

If your baby is due in 4 weeks it’s likely it’ll be quite a few months until a crib is needed. The first months will pass in a tired blur of the baby sleeping only on you or your partner, followed waking up the second you try to put them on anything else. Once they use a crib though just buy one — you won’t have time to build and it’s important to make it safe.

That's not the case for all babies, imho they come with different habits right from the start. I have ~10 kids in my closest family, all with different sleeping habits.

Re: Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013)

#90

Post by stevekemp »

refurb wrote: post #71
Swizec wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non parent surrounded by friends having kids I often wonder how much money and faff is wasted on things kids won’t even remember.

Not only that, but money wasted on stuff that gets used for 1-2 years then is no longer needed. My wife and I joined a "free baby stuff" facebook group and got almost everything we needed for free.

At the earlier ages stuff doesn't even come close to being useful for a year. I remember going to a local charity shop and buying a sackful of baby-clothes. I paid €10 for a huge bag and I remember that some of the same stuff got donated back a few months later - having never been worn.

Babies can grow so quickly that buying clothes used and sharing stuff amongst other local parents is the only sensible thing to do.

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