Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes • Hacker News Board

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#81

Post by kwantam » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #22

It's an interesting paper, but unfortunately it misses the point. Polar dissimilar political beliefs are not the problem. Many countries have this, and even have lively political discussions that remain civil, rallies that remain civil, and elections that remain civil. The actual problem is psychological, specifically dealing with identity beliefs. Once a person takes on a belief as part of their identity, any attack…

I was reading about this just yesterday, and was intrigued to learn that the backfire effect may not be real and/or may be very weak. Here's one meta-study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7462781/

As I understand it (I am far from deeply knowledgeable about the literature! I'm just reading a book on this right now), Porter and Wood's 2017 study was one of the first that called into question the strength or existence of the backfire effect:

Wood and Porter. "The elusive backfire effect: mass attitudes' steadfast factual adherence." Political Behavior, Jan 6 2018. https://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2819073

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#82

Post by cool_dude85 » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

idontwantthis wrote: post #76

insickness wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You inadvertently provide an excellent example of what is causing polarization in America: Highlight the worst possible examples from the side you oppose while assigning the most charitable intentions to the side you support.

Where is a single Democratic politician fighting to close polling places and restrict Republican populations from voting? Where is a single Republican politician fighting to give greater access to the vote? Where was a single Democrat who stormed the Virginia capital when Republicans won the Governorship? 2 Republicans in Congress voted for an investigation of the insurrections, so there you go: charity.

Take a look at primary elections in Democrat strongholds like NY to see the same kind of voting restrictions you're railing against, designed of course to ensure that current party power brokers are difficult to challenge.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#83

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

idontwantthis wrote: post #64

rmbyrro wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how bad the situation is... To be fair, though, the left also has been associated with violent and anti-democratic behaviors.

“To be fair” nothing approaching the same ballpark has been committed by the left and the any “violent and anti democratic behaviors” you can give examples of have not been championed by the left establishment. One side wants to seize power for all time, and the other side wants democracy. If anyone on the left isn’t polarized by that fact then they aren’t paying attention.

[deleted]

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#84

Post by brightball » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

The polarization is much worse on the left side of the isle. I’d always observed it on the internet with what comes across as belligerent hate of anything done by a conservative, but this recent poll really brings home just how far the brainwashing has gone.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/over-70-of-young...

If your political beliefs prevent you from associating with somebody because you have labeled them so firmly as to write them off entirely as a person, you have jumped the shark and become the problem.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#85

Post by hypertexthero » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #22

It's an interesting paper, but unfortunately it misses the point. Polar dissimilar political beliefs are not the problem. Many countries have this, and even have lively political discussions that remain civil, rallies that remain civil, and elections that remain civil. The actual problem is psychological, specifically dealing with identity beliefs. Once a person takes on a belief as part of their identity, any attack…

> When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

—Jiddu Krishnamurti, Freedom From the Known, Chapter 6.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#86

Post by Clubber » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #84

The polarization is much worse on the left side of the isle. I’d always observed it on the internet with what comes across as belligerent hate of anything done by a conservative, but this recent poll really brings home just how far the brainwashing has gone. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/over-70-of-young... If your political beliefs prevent you from associating with somebody because you have labeled the…

>If your political beliefs prevent you from associating with somebody because you have labeled them so firmly as to write them off entirely as a person, you have jumped the shark and become the problem.

If you get the population to focus on wedge issues that laws can't really remedy, they won't focus on your hand stealing money from their pockets. In other words, if you can get them to fight each other, they won't fight you, the power class.

It's all wrestling, these guys fighting each other on the news, talking about things that get people all riled up, go have a beer together after the show.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#87

Post by ilikecakeandpie » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #84

The polarization is much worse on the left side of the isle. I’d always observed it on the internet with what comes across as belligerent hate of anything done by a conservative, but this recent poll really brings home just how far the brainwashing has gone. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/over-70-of-young... If your political beliefs prevent you from associating with somebody because you have labeled the…

> If your political beliefs prevent you from associating with somebody because you have labeled them so firmly as to write them off entirely as a person, you have jumped the shark and become the problem.

If someone is having their bodily autonomy threatened by legislation pushed and passed by a political party and a choice for potential partner actively supports and votes for those people to gain or retain power, it's not an irrational decision to decide they're probably not compatible.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#88

Post by stolenmerch » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

idontwantthis wrote: post #70

supreme_loquat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy Okay so lumping together half the country in with a few extremists would probably be the first step to answering your question. Yes there were probably plenty of people at home cheering them on but if you really believe it was half the country then you need to get outside your bubble. > the other side wants to make voting for whoever…

60% of Republicans believe that Biden did not win the election. If you believe the presidency has been stolen by a conspiracy then violence is the only recourse remaining. This is not a handful of extremists. This is the predominant view.

And about the same number of Democrats believe the widely debunked conspiracy theory that Trump colluded with the Russians to interfere with the 2016 election or that members of congress were paid Russian assets. That's the thing about polarization. It's easy to see the crazy when it's your political enemy doing it.

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#89

Post by Clubber » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

idontwantthis wrote: post #76

insickness wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You inadvertently provide an excellent example of what is causing polarization in America: Highlight the worst possible examples from the side you oppose while assigning the most charitable intentions to the side you support.

Where is a single Democratic politician fighting to close polling places and restrict Republican populations from voting? Where is a single Republican politician fighting to give greater access to the vote? Where was a single Democrat who stormed the Virginia capital when Republicans won the Governorship? 2 Republicans in Congress voted for an investigation of the insurrections, so there you go: charity.

While you focus on the other party, you are probably ignoring the detrimental things the party you support does. This is by design. The GOP supporters do the same thing and can list all the horrible things the Democratic Party does with equal fervor.

Did you know the GOP doesn't have superdelegates like the Democrats do? Superdelegates are certainly an example of manipulating the will of the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate

Re: Preventing extreme polarization of political attitudes

#90

Post by commandlinefan » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

insickness wrote: post #72

idontwantthis wrote: post #49

Polarization in America: One side invaded the capital building in a violent attempt to overthrow democracy, and the other side wants to make voting for whoever you want as easy as possible. Guess which pole I’m at and tell me how I should meet the other pole in the middle.

You inadvertently provide an excellent example of what is causing polarization in America: Highlight the worst possible examples from the side you oppose while assigning the most charitable intentions to the side you support.

> Highlight the worst possible examples

... and then exaggerate those on top of it.