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The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

mcc.gse.harvard.edu

81–90 of 254 posts

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#81
post #70

How do they define loneliness? A lot of people are alone but content. Also the older I get the harder it becomes to maintain friendships. People move on socially, financially and geographically.

"Solitary" is what you're referring to. Loneliness is by definition a sad condition: "sadness because one has no friends or company."

Good distinction. I spend time with enough people. Loneliness as I feel it is despair at not being deeply understood and unconditionally loved. Which by the way is practically impossible and an inherent flaw of the human design.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#82
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

As their employer there are limits to what you can do, and there is also a cultural aspect that is forming how people perceive the issue (Netflix, the internet, seeing a lack of investment from the individuals).

There are things you can do to help. Provide flexibility, paid time and/or funds to do side activities like hobbies and sports. Have them participate in conferences or expert groups. Offer opportunities to test out new activities like diving, skiing, wall climbing, and so on. Not as a team building exercise, but as activities which employees can do to improve their own well being.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#83
I often come back to this quote by Vivek Murthy, former and current Surgeon General of the United States: "During my years caring for patients, the most common pathology I saw was not heart disease or diabetes; it was loneliness."[0] Always strikes me that the issue was so noticeable even four years ago.

[0]: https://www.vivekmurthy.com/post/2017/10/10/work-and-the-lon...

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#84
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

We've lost the community aspect. Previously, communities were essential for survival but nowadays it's easier than ever to be independent. Work remote from your computer. Buy food, water, sex and get dopamine hits from social media. When you don't really need anyone, it's hard to be vulnerable and try to open up to new people. So here we are, we have everything at our fingertips and yet we're empty.

I think it’s more of a subtle shift that that?

Tech enables people to maintain communities digitally over distance and self select into ones they match with on metrics better than just location.

This has pros and cons. The con is people used to socialize with local people and groups (because it was the only option) and now do that less.

The pros include being able to communicate with people you wouldn’t be able to otherwise (like we’re doing now), if you’re growing up in a small town this is huge.

I think we’re missing a good way to connect the digital communities to the real world more frequently. Maybe metaverse will help, maybe better cities with cheaper COL so people can move around more easily, maybe remote work? I don’t know - we’re still in the middle of a big transition.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#85
post #73
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-wor…

> You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix.

That's not really true though. We're born social animals, we die social animals. Being solitary isn't a means of "finding oneself" so that one is ready to "bring other people into the mix". It's just a way of slowly going crazy. There's a reason why solitary confinement is a form of punishment, or even torture.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#86
I think choice is a big part of the problem.

We have too much choice about the people that we have in our lives and the basis of our interactions with those people. We're much more reactive than we like to admit - therefore having people in our lives who cause us discontent or even trouble can actually be a very good thing (within reasonable limits). However, once we have the choice (freedom of movement, a world of connected people just like ourselves, no dependence on "local" community) we naturally choose to exclude those people. We're engaging with or waiting on an ideal and painless social group.

It's somewhat analogous to being able to always choose what to listen to or what to watch. You never get any surprises. You are rarely challenged. The stimuli are weak.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#87
post #73
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-wor…

You don't need to know how to look after yourself. This is perfect is the enemy of the good type situation.

Not being a fully realized person doesn't stop you from making connections. Even deep great friendships. You and your friends can grow together over time. You can cut out friends that are not a good fit over time if they are bad for you (abusive, etc.).

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#88
post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

There is definitely not only one way to not be lonely. Of course we are social creatures and loneliness is a part of being deprived of social interaction…but being lonely and being alone can be 2 completely different states. And being surrounded by people, even those that care and support you, can still leave someone feeling lonely.

If someone doesn’t want to find a partner and gives you “an excuse”, please don’t make it your problem.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#90
One of thing that is obvious to me is the bizarre cultural norm that, in the US, people are expected to move away from home at the age of 18 and then relocate more-or-less permanently far away from family and childhood friends.

To my American friends this seems totally normal, and suggesting something different is ridiculed.

An obvious consequence of this is that American adults have 3 or 4 "social fabric ruptures" as they grow up:

1. When they turn 18 they move far from home to go to college temporarily. They develop a new group of friends, at the expense of being far from family & home.

2. When they turn 22 they move to Big City for a job. Probably _not_ where their parents live, and almost certainly not where their college friends live.

3. There's another (optional) move to Different Big City in late 20s

4. Finally they marry and in their early 30s they move to Suburb (leaving their Big City friends behind).

The result of this is an absolutely frayed social fabric. Not only do people leave their friends behind just as they start to develop deep friendships, they do so in an environment where building new friendships is harder (because they keep getting older).

If one wanted to design a system that maximized unhappiness, it would be pretty close to this! Of course Americans are lonely! They keep leaving their family and friends behind!

There's two reasons for this, imho.

Firstly, the cultural norm of "the real college experience" requiring dorms, facilities, football stadiums, etc. Being a commuter student in the USA is weird at best at most colleges, and certainly the good ones.

Secondly (and perhaps most importantly), is a set of policies (transit, zoning) that make the places where old people/families want to live different from the places young people want to live. This results in the 30-something move to the suburbs, but it also results in the 18-something move to the city or ~disneyland~ college campus: of course you don't want to be a commuter student if your parents live in the suburbs: there's nothing to do! You can't drink, you can't party, you can't do anything.

This social norm has a whole other series of consequences besides just loneliness. Financially:

- It's inefficient at best and ruinous at worst: Not only is sleep-away college expensive, it also creates a rat race between schools for bigger/better facilities resulting in runaway costs.

- Young adults entering the workforce don't live at home, which means they don't create a savings cushion to help them buy their first home in their late 20s (compounded with college debt due to the point above)

- Families with kids often end up far from grandparents/family/trusted friends, further increasing the financial "overhead" of just living.

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