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Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

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Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccines won't help _at all_ if your immune system is completely compromised by other health issues.

They absolutely help if everyone else gets vaccinated, which is what the person you’re replying to said.

No they won't because COVID spreads from vaccinated people too.

Also my point is there is no use to any vaccine if underlying health is not addressed in tandem.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely help if everyone else gets vaccinated, which is what the person you’re replying to said.

No they won't because COVID spreads from vaccinated people too. Also my point is there is no use to any vaccine if underlying health is not addressed in tandem.

I do not disagree with your point that the vaccine does not work on people who have an immundefect.

But that point was never in dispute, at least not in my comment.

Of course it would be great if the vaccine would also stop the transmission, but even if not, if less people get sick, less people will spread it, which will lead to smaller clusters.

It also allows the medical system to keep on working and providing the best medical help to people who do get sick.

Of course covid-19 is still an ongoing situation, viruses mutate, situations and recommendations change, but I don't see any indication that we can protect the population and even more the vulnerable population without a high enough vaccination rate.

Edit: Wording

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#83
One thing this article misses are medical procedures that improve the quality of life, but have no bearing on life expectancy.

For example, if you knock out your front row of teeth, not only do you look weird to people (a pirate), but also you can no longer easily bite into a hamburger, and your speech is impacted. You will have trouble pronouncing words that contain 'v', 'th', or 'f'.

Getting implants is not going to increase your life expectancy, unless you live in a society devoid of knives (our external teeth). But the increase in quality of life is often worth it.

That being said, in the US dentists seem to take way too many X-rays. They take X-rays before the doctor even sees you. Then the doctor tells you what you could have told them.

Source: personal experience.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They absolutely help if everyone else gets vaccinated, which is what the person you’re replying to said.

No they won't because COVID spreads from vaccinated people too. Also my point is there is no use to any vaccine if underlying health is not addressed in tandem.

You're approximately half as likely to get infected (and therefore become infectious) if you're vaccinated. Especially when the R0 is already hovering near 2, vaccines can mean the difference between COVID dying out in your area and COVID rampaging through the area, developing mutant strains as it goes. So your claim ("Vaccines won't help _at all_ if your immune system is completely compromised by other health issues.") is false.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said the body runs on glucose (ie it is essential for survival) - you claimed that was misinformation (which it isn’t) - I said nothing about dietary carbohydrates. Blood glucose levels for those on even the extreme keto diets will be regulated in the same range (60-90 mg/dl) as someone on a more conventional diet that does not have impaired glucose metabolism. People with Type 1 diabetes still need insulin even if…

You said "at the end of the day your body still runs on glucose" which is NOT true on a ketogenic diet, as a mere 25 grams are manufactured by the liver as needed for (apparently) red blood cells. Yes, I agree that ketogenic dieters still have glucose, obviously, my point was about CHRONICALLY ELEVATED glucose being deleterious for blood vessel health, which is widely known and, again, cause of the necrosis seen in l…

Glucose is produced constantly by numerous cells in the body, and that is an essential function - regardless of diet.

> I know of at least one T1 diabetic that is OFF INSULIN on a ketogenic (carnivore) diet.

No, you do not. Fully progressed Type 1 or LADA diabetics need insulin to live or they need a pancreas transplant. There are some other experimental avenues - but they have nothing to do with diet because the key issue with T1DM is autoimmune destruction of the pancreas and insulin is essential.

You clearly do not have beyond a grade school understanding of biology. You may convince others that are similarly ignorant of the basics, but that would not be me.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said "at the end of the day your body still runs on glucose" which is NOT true on a ketogenic diet, as a mere 25 grams are manufactured by the liver as needed for (apparently) red blood cells. Yes, I agree that ketogenic dieters still have glucose, obviously, my point was about CHRONICALLY ELEVATED glucose being deleterious for blood vessel health, which is widely known and, again, cause of the necrosis seen in l…

Glucose is produced constantly by numerous cells in the body, and that is an essential function - regardless of diet. > I know of at least one T1 diabetic that is OFF INSULIN on a ketogenic (carnivore) diet. No, you do not. Fully progressed Type 1 or LADA diabetics need insulin to live or they need a pancreas transplant. There are some other experimental avenues - but they have nothing to do with diet because the key…

Here's one example from a search: https://revero.com/vlad-manages-type-1-diabetes-carnivore-di...

And here's a person I know from Twitter: https://twitter.com/furniss_jon

I found an article by this person about it https://blogs.meterbolic.org/blog/taking-control-of-type-1-d...

Note that I'm not sure about his status at the moment because he's experimenting with a lot of stuff, and I'm aware of the beta cell issue, but it seems to be more complex than that. Perhaps it can only be arrested in a subset of people who somehow retained a baseline of insulin production.

Re: glucose, I'm not disputing glucose is always necessary, just not dietary glucose and only about 25 grams per day. Humans seem to be extraordinary at using fat for energy.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glucose is produced constantly by numerous cells in the body, and that is an essential function - regardless of diet. > I know of at least one T1 diabetic that is OFF INSULIN on a ketogenic (carnivore) diet. No, you do not. Fully progressed Type 1 or LADA diabetics need insulin to live or they need a pancreas transplant. There are some other experimental avenues - but they have nothing to do with diet because the key…

Here's one example from a search: https://revero.com/vlad-manages-type-1-diabetes-carnivore-di... And here's a person I know from Twitter: https://twitter.com/furniss_jon I found an article by this person about it https://blogs.meterbolic.org/blog/taking-control-of-type-1-d... Note that I'm not sure about his status at the moment because he's experimenting with a lot of stuff, and I'm aware of the beta cell issue, bu…

[deleted]

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glucose is produced constantly by numerous cells in the body, and that is an essential function - regardless of diet. > I know of at least one T1 diabetic that is OFF INSULIN on a ketogenic (carnivore) diet. No, you do not. Fully progressed Type 1 or LADA diabetics need insulin to live or they need a pancreas transplant. There are some other experimental avenues - but they have nothing to do with diet because the key…

Here's one example from a search: https://revero.com/vlad-manages-type-1-diabetes-carnivore-di... And here's a person I know from Twitter: https://twitter.com/furniss_jon I found an article by this person about it https://blogs.meterbolic.org/blog/taking-control-of-type-1-d... Note that I'm not sure about his status at the moment because he's experimenting with a lot of stuff, and I'm aware of the beta cell issue, bu…

I read the blog post once and concluded this poor chap was confusing type 1 and type 2 diabetes - because really the first paragraph is silly - that testimonial is classic for type 2 diabetes.

I’m still a bit skeptical this dude actually has true type 1 diabetes, when it fits more likely that it is LADA, latent autoimmune diabetes of adulthood - maybe look it up.

But in any event, everything I could find is that this guy is still using insulin. So that doesn’t really change anything - he’s still insulin dependent - and he “hopes” that it can be reversed. But why? Not based on anything logical I can see. He reduced his insulin requirements - by reducing his dietary carbohydrate intake - well duh that is a mainstay of diabetes management for years - you don’t have to go full blown keto to realize decreasing insulin requirements with lower dietary carbs.

So your example doesn’t even demonstrate your point. And even if it did, your fundamental line of reasoning is flawed - you keep bringing up examples - these people might as well be medical outliers - this has no generalizability and you don’t have any justification to even suspect that their diet had any effect on their health outcomes.

Edit: also please read the comments carefully on “vlads” post - lol he’s been diagnosed type 1 at age 40 - more likely it’s lada. And he’s only been diagnosed 2 months - yeah maybe he still has some functioning islet cells left - look where he is in 2 to 3 years. I appreciate the commenters that basically call him out on his bullshit.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they won't because COVID spreads from vaccinated people too. Also my point is there is no use to any vaccine if underlying health is not addressed in tandem.

You're approximately half as likely to get infected (and therefore become infectious) if you're vaccinated. Especially when the R0 is already hovering near 2, vaccines can mean the difference between COVID dying out in your area and COVID rampaging through the area, developing mutant strains as it goes. So your claim ("Vaccines won't help _at all_ if your immune system is completely compromised by other health issues…

You are making up statistics. The fact is that the only thing that protects the body _is_ the immune systems.

Vaccines do _not_ work on their own. They work _with_ the immune system.

Therefore, if the immune system is compromised (for _any_ reason) vaccines are worthless.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one example from a search: https://revero.com/vlad-manages-type-1-diabetes-carnivore-di... And here's a person I know from Twitter: https://twitter.com/furniss_jon I found an article by this person about it https://blogs.meterbolic.org/blog/taking-control-of-type-1-d... Note that I'm not sure about his status at the moment because he's experimenting with a lot of stuff, and I'm aware of the beta cell issue, bu…

I read the blog post once and concluded this poor chap was confusing type 1 and type 2 diabetes - because really the first paragraph is silly - that testimonial is classic for type 2 diabetes. I’m still a bit skeptical this dude actually has true type 1 diabetes, when it fits more likely that it is LADA, latent autoimmune diabetes of adulthood - maybe look it up. But in any event, everything I could find is that this…

Yes the speculation is a zero carb diet will arrest type 1 if caught early.

Anyway we can perhaps at least agree that t2 diabetes is resolved by a low-carb diet and my initial point was just to say that blood vessel health is negatively impacted by abnormally elevated blood glucose, nothing more.

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