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Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

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Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#81

Post by rp1 »

eddie_gibbon wrote: post #63

In this matter, I see very little nuance and perspicacity from WTA when dealing with people of a different culture both politically and otherwise. In general WTA setting out terms to nation state is a very absurd situation. If the situation was reversed, American government would care zero bit to appear accountable to any foreign or international organisation. But what is surprising is how WTAs take on this matter is…

Rather than make a blanket statement that people should be skeptical, can you provide a concrete reason why one should be skeptical in this case? I think most people here believe that victims of sexual assault should be able to come forward without fear of retribution. I’m curious what your counter argument is.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#82

Post by hker »

Aunche wrote: post #68
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NBA has orders of magnitude more leverage than women's tennis. There's a serious number of NBA fans in China who would be pissed if it were banned. > No Chinese woman can ever be the best tennis player anymore. China already struggles mightily in both men's and women's tennis. They don't have any player in men's or women's that cracks the top 100.

It's a good thing you can pirate the NBA or use a VPN. Less committed fans will simply accept that China just censor the NBA for telling "lies." You can't pirate your way into hosting a international tournament.

Would Blizzard and the IOC be closer to the WTA here, in that their are also hosting tournaments and events?

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#83

Post by hker »

Aunche wrote: post #31
shmde wrote: post #5

They are going to lose 1/3 of revenue. Now NBA and Xohn Xhina on the other hand.

The difference is that that the WTA actually has leverage on China because China loses legitimacy in sports from this decision. No Chinese woman can ever be the best tennis player anymore. The NBA and John Cena actually have negative leverage on China. Both are purely American exports, so getting them banned in China only serves to widen the trade imbalance. China would love to find an excuse to do so.

In terms of leverage on China, I think Apple has a lot, since they employ a lot in China. Although the next question is, can they afford (of the order of) 1/3 of their revenue?

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#84

Post by eddie_gibbon »

rp1 wrote: post #81
eddie_gibbon wrote: post #63

In this matter, I see very little nuance and perspicacity from WTA when dealing with people of a different culture both politically and otherwise. In general WTA setting out terms to nation state is a very absurd situation. If the situation was reversed, American government would care zero bit to appear accountable to any foreign or international organisation. But what is surprising is how WTAs take on this matter is…

Rather than make a blanket statement that people should be skeptical, can you provide a concrete reason why one should be skeptical in this case? I think most people here believe that victims of sexual assault should be able to come forward without fear of retribution. I’m curious what your counter argument is.

The thing is WTA is claiming to speak at the behest of someone with whom they don't have direct contact. In certain aspects what WTA is doing is crossing boundaries of fair behaviour. Imagine if it was a similar allegation made by an American player, would the WTA would go guns blazing if they didn't have direct communication with the individual.

Where there is a need for circumspection, and for nuance , WTA has jumped into the fray speaking of absolutes.

Has WTA made good faith attempts like despatching its delegates to China and understand first hand the situation?

Frankly if you examine the available details, WTA only has a flimsy argument.

And also imagine what could happen next. It could be very much possible for the Chinese to organise a video call for example with Boris Johnson, in which Peng will castigate WTA for invading her privacy, and not respecting her need to stay away from public gaze, etc..

If so then what will WTA do?

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#85

Post by ekanes »

hker wrote: post #9

Both Billie Jean King, the founder of WTA, and Novak Djokovic support WTA’s announcement [1]. “I applaud Steve Simon and the WTA leadership for taking a strong stand on defending human rights in China and around the world,” said Billie Jean King. “The WTA is on the right side of history in supporting our players. This is another reason why women’s tennis is the leader in women’s sports.” Novak Djokovic, World No 1 an…

They might also gain NEW fans and revenue from people impressed and intrigued by this bold move.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#86

Post by ekanes »

skinkestek wrote: post #69
shmde wrote: post #5

They are going to lose 1/3 of revenue. Now NBA and Xohn Xhina on the other hand.

I'm not interested in tennis at all but I admit feeling an urge to find some way to support tennis. It would be great if the internet could somehow make this a fantastic decision for WTA. Ideas?

Absolutely. I’m in. I am hopeful viewership goes up.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#87

Post by rp1 »

eddie_gibbon wrote: post #84
rp1 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than make a blanket statement that people should be skeptical, can you provide a concrete reason why one should be skeptical in this case? I think most people here believe that victims of sexual assault should be able to come forward without fear of retribution. I’m curious what your counter argument is.

The thing is WTA is claiming to speak at the behest of someone with whom they don't have direct contact. In certain aspects what WTA is doing is crossing boundaries of fair behaviour. Imagine if it was a similar allegation made by an American player, would the WTA would go guns blazing if they didn't have direct communication with the individual. Where there is a need for circumspection, and for nuance , WTA has jump…

The WTA has made numerous attempts to contact Peng, and notified the government that the WTA would pull out of China unless they could talk to her and be assured of her freedom. If your argument is predicated on the WTA not making an effort to contact Peng, then you’re misinformed and just wrong.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#88

Post by Aunche »

hker wrote: post #82
Aunche wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good thing you can pirate the NBA or use a VPN. Less committed fans will simply accept that China just censor the NBA for telling "lies." You can't pirate your way into hosting a international tournament.

Would Blizzard and the IOC be closer to the WTA here, in that their are also hosting tournaments and events?

That's closer, but I don't think that's quite the same. Esports seems to serve more so as marketing for videogames. The CCP is trying to discourage its population from playing videogames, so they doubt that they care if they lose out on American ones. Also, esports don't have nearly the prestige of physical sports at the moment, though that could change in the future.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#89

Post by eddie_gibbon »

rp1 wrote: post #87
eddie_gibbon wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is WTA is claiming to speak at the behest of someone with whom they don't have direct contact. In certain aspects what WTA is doing is crossing boundaries of fair behaviour. Imagine if it was a similar allegation made by an American player, would the WTA would go guns blazing if they didn't have direct communication with the individual. Where there is a need for circumspection, and for nuance , WTA has jump…

The WTA has made numerous attempts to contact Peng, and notified the government that the WTA would pull out of China unless they could talk to her and be assured of her freedom. If your argument is predicated on the WTA not making an effort to contact Peng, then you’re misinformed and just wrong.

Have they made a determined and good faith attempt to do so? Sending out emails and social media call outs isn't that serious of an effort. Can't WTA afford to send somebody to China and see for themselves? Have they made an attempt at that?

WTA seems to be looking for reasons to burn bridges, rather.

Point is WTA needs to make abundantly clear the steps they have taken of their own accord to address their concerns rather than focusing mostly on casting aspersions.

Re: Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

#90

Post by necovek »

petre wrote: post #77
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social credit score (as most Westerners think of it) is a complete myth. One of the top American experts on Chinese law, at Yale university, calls most Western reporting on the subject "social credit fan fiction." There are various"social credit" systems in China, but the average person does not interact with them. They mostly exist to regulate businesses . Individuals in China do not have a social credit score,…

> you might end up being barred from flying or buying a train ticket I see. So essentially like an international terrorist on the US no fly list, just for regular people. Like maybe exposing a government official for sexual harassement, getting charged with spreading rumors and failing to comply with being dissapeared ?

This interpretation seems to be extremely in bad faith.

Instead, to me it sounds like a fugitive from law that now can't travel easily.

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